Posted on 03/13/2005 7:16:00 PM PST by churchillbuff
....In a shift whose ideological breadth is unusual in the fragmented Protestant world, a long-standing wall around Mary appears to be eroding. It is not that Protestants are converting to Catholicism's dramatic exaltation: the singing of Salve Regina, the Rosary's Marian Mysteries, the entreaty to her in the Hail Mary to "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." Rather, a growing number of Christian thinkers who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox (another branch of faith to which Mary is central) have concluded that their various traditions have shortchanged her in the very arena in which Protestantism most prides itself: the careful and full reading of Scripture.
Arguments on the Virgin's behalf have appeared in a flurry of scholarly essays and popular articles, on the covers of the usually conservative Christianity Today (headline: The Blessed Evangelical Mary) and the usually liberal Christian Century (St. Mary for protestants). They are being preached, if not yet in many churches then in a denominational cross section—and not just at modest addresses like Maguire's in Xenia but also from mighty pulpits like that at Chicago's Fourth Presbyterian Church, where longtime senior pastor John Buchanan recently delivered a major message on the Virgin ending with the words "Hail Mary ... Blessed are you among us all."
This could probably not have happened at some other time. Robert Jenson, author of the respected text Systematic Theology, chuckles when asked whether the pastor of his Lutheran youth would have approved of his (fairly extreme) position that Protestants, like Catholics, should pray for Mary's intercession. "My pastor would have been horrified," he says, adding, "The pastor was my father." Yet today Catholics and Protestants feel freer to explore each other's beliefs and practices. Feminism has encouraged popular speculations on the lives of female biblical figures and the role of the divine feminine (think The Red Tent and The Da Vinci Code). A growing interest, on both the Protestant right and left, in practices and texts from Christianity's first 1,500 years has led to immersion in the habitual Marianism of the early and medieval church. And the influx of millions of Hispanic immigrants from Catholic cultures into American Protestantism may eventually accelerate progress toward a pro-Marian tipping point—on whose other side may lie changes not just in sermon topic but in liturgy, personal piety and a re-evaluation of the actual messages of the Reformation.
The movement is not yet prevalent in the pews. And it has its critics. While granting that Mary shows up more in the New Testament than some churches recognize, Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Southern Seminary, charges that those who use her full record to justify new "theological constructions" around her are guilty of "overreaching," "wishful thinking" and effectively "flirting with Catholic devotion." Yet Lutheran theologian Carl Braaten, co-editor of an essay collection on what might be called Marian upgrade, claims, "We don't have to go back to Catholicism. We can go back to our own roots and sources. It could be done without shocking the congregation. I can't predict how exactly it will happen. Some of it will be good, and some of it may be bad.
But I think it's going to happen." .....
hope this helps
thank you
The first miracle in the book of John is the Marriage at Canna....Marys says "they have no wine"....Jesus says "it is not my time."
Mary says "do as he says." Now it seems to me he is telling him in a very motherly way that it is his time and he obviously agrees as he acts and performs the miracle...
"I haven't read the bible, ..."
If you have an interest in theology, an easy way to learn the Bible is daily Mass. Aside from the supernatural graces and opportunities, it is a way to hear every verse read aloud and then some verses explained in the homily. We don't bite. :)
That's an interesting take. so you don't believe in the divinity of Christ.
Ah, yes, "God with us" and...... I'm still waiting for something in the prophesy that tells me Mary didn't qualify too.
You say "Why is the belief of the oldest Christian communities "preposterous"? "
You believe Martin Luther to be among the "oldest Christian communities"? Don't think so. Rather, the New Testament writers were the oldest Christian community. They say absolutely nothing about Mary being sinless...not a word.
The Bible says she was blessed above all women.
But it never says to pray to her or through her.
Us Protestants should keep our distance from Catholicism. While many Catholics are fine, upstanding people (and they have done a excellent job opposing abortion), the Roman Sect is ridden with liberal heresies.
I really didn't want to chime in but I can't help it...You are taking an attribute of God the Creator and applying it to God the man...If that was the case, how would you justify Jesus coming in contact with Joseph, or any human for that matter...
You, nor anyone else will kill God, but God (Jesus) DIED, by the hand of men...
"extra-Biblical nonsense"
Where in the Bible does it say that that the Bible contains everything we need? I love the bible. Read it every day. But John said, John 21:25,"Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written."
Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2), and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15). He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
I don't know what you're talking about. Jesus Christ was divine, thus perfect. Mary was neither.
Well, the Bible didn't just pop into being after 300 years; its books and letters were circulating well before that time. Virtually all Christians with an orthodox creed esteem those books well above any other contenders on the virtue of their content.
Protestants taking mary more seriously...who do these bluestate reporters talk to? No offense at all to the fine Catholics in here, but protestants are unchanged as to who did what and when :)
ALOHA RONNIE,I read here he was not doing the Fatima movie.Mel call me I can help if you are doing it,fatima
There aren't very many of them BTW.
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According to a CARL LIMBACHER http://www.Newsmax.com 'Inside Cover' Column...
MEL GIBSON did not ask Sister LUCIA about the remaining unrevealed parts of the 3rd Secret of -FATIMA- which she received from Mother MARY and then passed on to the Line of succeeding Popes to eventually reveal to the World, when MEL visited her a year ago with a preview of his -PASSION-
See:
FATIMA Visionary Dies at 97
http://www.Newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/2/13/193343.shtml
The 1st 'Miracle of FATIMA' Motion Picture from the early 1950's is an absolute stunner.
Stand by for MEL's.
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Yes, I agree. So does my church.
What I meant by the differences over the communion of saints is this: We all ask others to pray for us. Catholics include the saints, living and those gone before, those who are with God now. We believe we are "in communion" with them and they are with us in communion, alive in Christ and can hear us (we refer to Revelations for scripture on this) and can pray for us, as we can for others as well. We believe we are one church with them, and we are reminded at Mass that they are with us now, part of one body, as well.
What I have heard from some protestants is that this is not so, the dead saints are either asleep or cannot hear us.
This is what I was referring to in my previous post. I don't know if your teaching is the same or not. I appreciate your reply...
I've heard that expression before and never heard an explanation till now. Thanks!
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