Catholic Ping - Come home for Easter and experience God’s merciful love. Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
Posted on 03/13/2005 7:16:00 PM PST by churchillbuff
Thank you very much for posting this.
You and Andy and Mike are very blessed.
I think your theory in the second sentence is an excellent one, partially because I myself many times, had the same thought.
What was your son's name,beautiful kid.
So true, the Word of God is supernaturally enlightening in the levels of meaning that are layered into it.
Thanks for sharing those ideas. It lends credibility to your perspective!
Welcome home!
Pax et Bonum
Catholic Ping - Come home for Easter and experience God’s merciful love. Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list
I think he said he is not not making a movie about Fatima.
The author credits feminism, The Red Tent and the DaVinci code. Hmmmmmm? If there is a realization on the part of Protestants that they have short changed the Blessed Mother of our Lord I doubt these are the reasons. All Protestants have to do is read Martin Luther, he was very devoted to the Blessed Mother. Oh, reading the Bible might help too, but the Protestants who most despise giving any credit to the Blessed Mother usually only read their Bible in a spotty sort of way throwing out the parts that don't agree with their view of what God should be.
Man! That was quick! :)
"You need to read the passages in the Bible that speak of ALL humanity being totally depraved and in need of the perfect Savior.
No one is perfect...not one...not ever. Only Christ."
So where does the Church teach that Mary didn't need to be saved? Can't a person be saved from something before it even happens? Example: Say there is a big pit with a lion in the bottom of it. If I stop you from falling into the pit, haven't I saved you, although you had not fallen into it yet? That is the same concept with the Immaculate Conception.
Regards
"It is not clear at all that God made Mary sinless. This is preposterous."
The Bible itself alludes to a comparison between the Ark in the OT and the "Ark" in the NT, Mary.
This is most explicit at the end of Revelation 11 into 12. Remember, there were no chapter separation when Revelation was written. You have the Ark at the end of 11, then the Mother of our Lord in 12. Yes, it refers to Israel, in the metaphoric sense, but to Mary in the literal sense - who actually gave birth to Him?
What did the Ark of the OT contain? The manna, Aaron's staff, and the Ten Commandments (according to Hebrews).
What did the Ark of the NT contain? The Bread from Heaven, the High Priest, and the Word (Law) of God Himself. Who else, then, is the true Ark - Mary.
Considering God had fashioned the Ark (directed the Hebrews how it was to be built, etc.), we consider that God would fashion the Ark of the NT that would carry His son in the same manner - pure and uncorrupted (sinless).
The Church Fathers see this quickly, as well as the idea that if Jesus is the New Adam, Mary is the New Eve. Since both Adam and Eve were involved in our fall, the Church reasoned that somehow, Jesus and Mary were involved in our redemption. Only Adam could condemn us, but Eve was not a simple bystander. Only Jesus could save us, but Mary was not a simple bystander. Ireneaus especially details this comparison. And Gen 3:15 say they both will be involved. This leads us to the term co-redemptrix. It doesn't mean that Jesus couldn't save us without Mary; it means He CHOSE to save us WITH her. (when you love, you share with others)
A helpful analogy of co-redemptrix -
A mother and her little daughter set out to make cookies. The mother "allows" the daughter to help prepare the dough and place the dough on the cookie sheet. The mother is really doing the work, but, out of love, she "allows" her daughter to help, even if the smallest manner. Strictly speaking, the mother made the cookies - who needs a 3 year old to make cookies - but out of love for her daughter, she allows the child to help her, to spend time with her daughter, etc. And when the daughter says "Daddy, I helped Mom make the cookies today", does the Mom get up, flabbergasted and disgusted with her daughter's usurping and overplaying her role, yell at her daughter "I MADE THE COOKIES, HOW DARE YOU TAKE AWAY FROM ME WHAT IS MINE!!!"
Same concept with God and the co-redemptrix.
By the way, Scripture has several verses that point to this concept - James 5:20, "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." or Colossians 1:24, "Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church"
There are others, but this is sufficient for now.
Regards
You talk as if you don't believe in the Immaculate Conception. Why is that?
White vestments and the whole bit. Always liked those days. Broke up the "Weeks after Pentecost" drill.
The Jews don't list the Apocrypha (or Deturocanon) as canon. It is part of tradition, but not canon. Many back then (and today) say that those books were brought in when the LXX was translated. That is why Jerome didn't want to include them in the Vulgate at first, there were not in Hebrew, but in Greek. In most European Lutheran bibles, the Apocrypha is in a separate section in the back or between the OT and NT. In the US, the old German Bibles did have them in them (my grandfathers did) but after WWII the Lutheran Churches no longer used German and shifted to a regularly available KJV/RSV.
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