Posted on 03/13/2005 7:16:00 PM PST by churchillbuff
....In a shift whose ideological breadth is unusual in the fragmented Protestant world, a long-standing wall around Mary appears to be eroding. It is not that Protestants are converting to Catholicism's dramatic exaltation: the singing of Salve Regina, the Rosary's Marian Mysteries, the entreaty to her in the Hail Mary to "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." Rather, a growing number of Christian thinkers who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox (another branch of faith to which Mary is central) have concluded that their various traditions have shortchanged her in the very arena in which Protestantism most prides itself: the careful and full reading of Scripture.
Arguments on the Virgin's behalf have appeared in a flurry of scholarly essays and popular articles, on the covers of the usually conservative Christianity Today (headline: The Blessed Evangelical Mary) and the usually liberal Christian Century (St. Mary for protestants). They are being preached, if not yet in many churches then in a denominational cross section—and not just at modest addresses like Maguire's in Xenia but also from mighty pulpits like that at Chicago's Fourth Presbyterian Church, where longtime senior pastor John Buchanan recently delivered a major message on the Virgin ending with the words "Hail Mary ... Blessed are you among us all."
This could probably not have happened at some other time. Robert Jenson, author of the respected text Systematic Theology, chuckles when asked whether the pastor of his Lutheran youth would have approved of his (fairly extreme) position that Protestants, like Catholics, should pray for Mary's intercession. "My pastor would have been horrified," he says, adding, "The pastor was my father." Yet today Catholics and Protestants feel freer to explore each other's beliefs and practices. Feminism has encouraged popular speculations on the lives of female biblical figures and the role of the divine feminine (think The Red Tent and The Da Vinci Code). A growing interest, on both the Protestant right and left, in practices and texts from Christianity's first 1,500 years has led to immersion in the habitual Marianism of the early and medieval church. And the influx of millions of Hispanic immigrants from Catholic cultures into American Protestantism may eventually accelerate progress toward a pro-Marian tipping point—on whose other side may lie changes not just in sermon topic but in liturgy, personal piety and a re-evaluation of the actual messages of the Reformation.
The movement is not yet prevalent in the pews. And it has its critics. While granting that Mary shows up more in the New Testament than some churches recognize, Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Southern Seminary, charges that those who use her full record to justify new "theological constructions" around her are guilty of "overreaching," "wishful thinking" and effectively "flirting with Catholic devotion." Yet Lutheran theologian Carl Braaten, co-editor of an essay collection on what might be called Marian upgrade, claims, "We don't have to go back to Catholicism. We can go back to our own roots and sources. It could be done without shocking the congregation. I can't predict how exactly it will happen. Some of it will be good, and some of it may be bad.
But I think it's going to happen." .....
It makes the case that the author "assumes" she was first among the disciples. They were still Jewish and the societal mores still applied. Women weren't given leadership roles.
Mel's a lurker,I am a homemaker who does other things.Was offered 3 films but have only done TV.Mel call me I can help.
this stories do not make any sense. If you asked your children not to eat cookies, and you catche them doing so, how upset can you get? Would you be upset for thousands of years, and would you be upset at their children, and your grand children? Of course not. Hence, you and I are better than God, OR the story of Adam and eve is just a stupid story.
Sorry but I don't agree. Men giving attributes and making assumptions based on their thoughts doesn't make Mary a saint anymore than it would make me. God chose her to carry the Savior. He didn't choose her to be a deity.
God created her to carry the Savior. And no one ever said she is a deity. She's sinless. There's a difference.
The Pentatuch - beginning with Adam and Eve and continuing through Deuteronomy - is the story of the fall of man. This is where we get Original Sin. It comes from the Bible.
Perhaps if you believe in those appearances.
Mat 12:46-50
46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, [his] mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Don't get me wrong, I love Mary as a believing sister, and I know she would tell us all that she needed a savior for her sins.
Neither has Mary about herself.
A good rule of thumb is to always have the utmost respect for someone's mother.
A son may think of her as merely a reproductive device but, more often than not, he does not.
Of course not. Who says otherwise?
I have to get up in the morning, so this is it for me this evening, but put this quote in context and it says something else.
Mary was with the program from the beginning. At the Annunciation, she said, "Let it be done to me according to thy word." That is what God - Father, Son and Holy Ghost - ask of us. She is our example of motherly humility. Her son did not have to tell her anything. She knew it from the beginning. See the Magnificat.
"And Immaculate Conception means that Mary was concieved without sin"
I remain amazed at unscriptural Catholic teachings such as that, and total rejection of Peter's message on what to do for remission of sins (Acts 2:38). Jesus didn't fail to teach him right. Peter preached exactly what he was told to preach.
So after that day of Pentecost, the message remains the same. Who would change it? Who desires that people die in their sins? That's right. Satan. And he has put forth, numerous religious rituals to appeal to "lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life" to replace God's ordained plan of salvation.
The apostle John warned of anti-christs existing even in his day. Paul warned of "false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." 2 Cor. 11:13-15.
The "few there be that find it" (Matt. 7:14), body of Christ, has existed from the beginning of the church, and has never gone forth conquering, and confiscating property to build wealth and grow in numbers. The church Jesus founded was to love their neighbor as themselves. Wise as serpents, harmless as doves.
And now I bid goodnight to all, be back in a few days.
Zuriel
If she had failed in this area, we would all be in trouble because God would have had to find another virgin from the line of Nathan/ David for prophecy sake (blood line of David). Then God would have had to arrange to have a man like Joseph, who was of the line of Solomon/ David to adopt Jesus (There was a blood curse placed on Solomons line, which would have tainted Jesus' royalty if He weren't adopted).
Mary was faithful, and for that I bless her!
Oh, and remember this: For Satan and his ministers to look righteous, they have to do righteous works. And that they do. A little or a lot. But when it comes to remission of sins, the demon deception effort is to the max.
Jhn 2:2-4
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
I think the elevation to sainthood or whatever the Catholic church claims about Mary qualifies as grandious delusions.
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