Posted on 03/13/2005 7:16:00 PM PST by churchillbuff
....In a shift whose ideological breadth is unusual in the fragmented Protestant world, a long-standing wall around Mary appears to be eroding. It is not that Protestants are converting to Catholicism's dramatic exaltation: the singing of Salve Regina, the Rosary's Marian Mysteries, the entreaty to her in the Hail Mary to "pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death." Rather, a growing number of Christian thinkers who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox (another branch of faith to which Mary is central) have concluded that their various traditions have shortchanged her in the very arena in which Protestantism most prides itself: the careful and full reading of Scripture.
Arguments on the Virgin's behalf have appeared in a flurry of scholarly essays and popular articles, on the covers of the usually conservative Christianity Today (headline: The Blessed Evangelical Mary) and the usually liberal Christian Century (St. Mary for protestants). They are being preached, if not yet in many churches then in a denominational cross section—and not just at modest addresses like Maguire's in Xenia but also from mighty pulpits like that at Chicago's Fourth Presbyterian Church, where longtime senior pastor John Buchanan recently delivered a major message on the Virgin ending with the words "Hail Mary ... Blessed are you among us all."
This could probably not have happened at some other time. Robert Jenson, author of the respected text Systematic Theology, chuckles when asked whether the pastor of his Lutheran youth would have approved of his (fairly extreme) position that Protestants, like Catholics, should pray for Mary's intercession. "My pastor would have been horrified," he says, adding, "The pastor was my father." Yet today Catholics and Protestants feel freer to explore each other's beliefs and practices. Feminism has encouraged popular speculations on the lives of female biblical figures and the role of the divine feminine (think The Red Tent and The Da Vinci Code). A growing interest, on both the Protestant right and left, in practices and texts from Christianity's first 1,500 years has led to immersion in the habitual Marianism of the early and medieval church. And the influx of millions of Hispanic immigrants from Catholic cultures into American Protestantism may eventually accelerate progress toward a pro-Marian tipping point—on whose other side may lie changes not just in sermon topic but in liturgy, personal piety and a re-evaluation of the actual messages of the Reformation.
The movement is not yet prevalent in the pews. And it has its critics. While granting that Mary shows up more in the New Testament than some churches recognize, Albert Mohler, president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Southern Seminary, charges that those who use her full record to justify new "theological constructions" around her are guilty of "overreaching," "wishful thinking" and effectively "flirting with Catholic devotion." Yet Lutheran theologian Carl Braaten, co-editor of an essay collection on what might be called Marian upgrade, claims, "We don't have to go back to Catholicism. We can go back to our own roots and sources. It could be done without shocking the congregation. I can't predict how exactly it will happen. Some of it will be good, and some of it may be bad.
But I think it's going to happen." .....
Bernadette is not the only one. There are a number of Incorruptables. She just happens to be one of the more famous ones.
And Immaculate Conception means that Mary was concieved without sin.
Was it the belief of Calvin?
Indeed. And if Jesus=Immanual and if Isiah 7:14 says "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel." .. what does that make Mary?
I mean, Luther was not perfect. He started the Reformation, but Calvin is the one who finally completed it.
All poor old Martin Luther ever wanted was remain roman catholic, he was indeed very confused.. Studied, and rejected, him(and others) and roman catholic dogma years ago..
Thanks anyway..
I believe that is an important message of Mary. Perhaps it is we as Christian women who can identify with her the most (especially if you are a mother), and what she went through in watching the suffering of her Son.
God bless your son. I lost my father to leukemia many years ago, and currently, I am watching someone I care for very much fight off another blood disorder, that could turn into leukemia. I look to Mary for strength, to see how she suffered while watching someone she loved suffer. I know God listened to her prayers and her pain, as I know he hears all of our prayers for strength in that regard.
Thanks again for sharing that, may God continue to bless you in your journey.
Who worships saints? Not Catholics. Mary is venerated and the others are held in high esteem. Their intercession is requested due to the miracles done in their names. Once there are miracles, these great saints are considered to be with God and as such are canonized.
Your post brings tears to my eyes.
I think you explain better than anyone else what Mary can mean to us today, a role model of a mother's love and strength. Thanks for posting.
There is no such a thing as ORIGINAL SIN! It does not make any sense.
"Mel call me I can help if you are doing it,fatima"
LOL, Associate Producer? Maybe Mel's a lurker, you never know!
"Constantine only legalized it, he didn't create it."
I didnt say otherwise.
"Pardon me, but as a Catholic, this is not true. Mary is venerated, but not worshiped. She is the Mother of God, and as such, in a church that believes in everlasting life, we can go to her as our spiritual mother and ask for her prayers."
Well said, I had the same reaction in #89, but you state it even better and more precisely.
It comes from the Pentatuch and the fall of man. Adam eating of the forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Without Original Sin, a state in which we are all born, there would be no need for the Sacrament of Baptism.
"Worshiping the Saints is an inovation."
OK, I wasn't going to chime in, and I'm not chiming in, but I gotta say NOBODY WORSHIPS SAINTS.
I probably would. However Barbara Bush hasn't had grandious delusions made about her.
I've had a lot of practice. :)
I agree with you that this article is a little fluffy.
It's already happened. Ever hear of the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship?
A better question is:
Does Mary or any of the other saints assume omnipresence when they get to heaven? Omnipresence, that which not even Angels have, is a requirement for being able to receive prayers from a multitude of people simultaneously. Omnipotence gives God the ability to act or not act on our behalf for those prayers. Omniscience allows God to know the context of our prayers in relation to what is best for us. He can even receive the prayers of another believer on earth on our behalf. No omniscience required for a face to face or over the telephone request.
It is good that only God has omnipresence, for if He imbued His creatures with it they could monitor our every sin. Thank God when we get to heaven, Grandma is not going to come up to us waving her finger.
Just because something is a Tradition of men, doesn't mean God approves of it. Jesus was as mad about the goofy things the religious leaders of His day came up with, as He was with anything. Goofy meaning not lining up with the Bible.
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