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Can the Monist View Account for "What Is Life?"
self | February 27, 2005 | Alamo Girl and betty boop

Posted on 02/27/2005 12:55:27 PM PST by betty boop

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1 posted on 02/27/2005 12:55:33 PM PST by betty boop
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To: Alamo-Girl; marron; cornelis; PatrickHenry; Ichneumon; RightWhale; ckilmer; bvw; psipsistar; ...

FYI ... if you have the time and interest!


2 posted on 02/27/2005 12:58:17 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop
“all that there is” as ultimately reducible to the concept of “matter in its motions.” This view holds that there is no essential difference between living and non-living systems in nature since both ultimately are expressions of the workings of the physical laws and only the physical laws.

Every once in a while somebody decides we know all the physical laws and the physics budget can safely be eliminated. Then somebody notices something that doesn't fit and it's off to the races once more.

So the above statement might be true in 952 AD, in 1750, in 1885, again in 1904, again in 1943, again in 1967, and again in 2112. In the inbetween years there are some loose ends and the statement is not true. It is not true in 2005, everything is up in the air again.

3 posted on 02/27/2005 1:09:50 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; marron; cornelis; PatrickHenry; RightWhale; ckilmer; bvw; psipsistar; ...
Important superscript omitted. Correction to text, from

"... we can draw quantitative consequences with regard to the static and dynamic information content of DNA. We estimated that the information necessary to govern the >105 chemical reactions sec–1 cell–1 in the 6*1013 human cells requires >1019 bits sec–1 that cannot be supplied from the static sequential information content of DNA ~109 bits for more than 10–10 sec."

to

"... we can draw quantitative consequences with regard to the static and dynamic information content of DNA. We estimated that the information necessary to govern the >105 chemical reactions sec–1 cell–1 in the 6*1013 human cells requires >1019 bits sec–1 that cannot be supplied from the static sequential information content of DNA ~109 bits for more than 10–10 sec."

So sorry! -- bb.

4 posted on 02/27/2005 1:13:02 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop

Thanks for the ping. You are indeed a wonder!


5 posted on 02/27/2005 1:17:24 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: betty boop

Per Bruce Lipton, DNA does not control cell processing, but it has a different function and normally remains dormant.


6 posted on 02/27/2005 1:17:34 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: RightWhale
It is not true in 2005, everything is up in the air again.

Glad to hear it, RightWhale! Thanks for writing.

7 posted on 02/27/2005 1:17:55 PM PST by betty boop
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To: RightWhale
Per Bruce Lipton, DNA does not control cell processing, but it has a different function and normally remains dormant.

That's very interesting, RW. I guess I'm going to have to buy Lipton's book. He's not alone in suspecting that DNA's role is not that of control, but of facilitation. But for DNA to "remain dormant" under normal conditions seems to be a very striking claim.... When it's not dormant, what is it doing, do you think?

8 posted on 02/27/2005 1:22:54 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop

Anyway, I have printed out this epochial piece and will peruse it later while waiting for rehearsal to begin.


9 posted on 02/27/2005 1:23:28 PM PST by RightWhale (Please correct if cosmic balance requires.)
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To: betty boop

For the record, I have no interest in such twaddle.


10 posted on 02/27/2005 1:24:34 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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To: balrog666

OK balrog666, noted.


11 posted on 02/27/2005 1:27:03 PM PST by betty boop
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl

Amazing. Both of you.

I would sincerely appreciate both of your undertaking a brief summary (abstract) of this article to insure I'm correctly following it....and then post them, of course.

How does DNA "tap" into the force field of life? is a question that came to my mind, but I'm not sure I'm imagining in the right direction.

"In him was life, and the life was the light of men..." Any "life" given us is a share in a field of already existing life?


12 posted on 02/27/2005 1:38:55 PM PST by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of it!)
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To: betty boop

I still suspect that there is a dimension as real as dimension time or dimension space, called the dimension of life force (having variable expressions, will, emotion, mind, for want of better terms); when complexity of the physical (non-living) universe reached a threshold, the dimension of life force had a 'hook' upon which the variable expressions of that dimension could then be mixed into the total expressions occurring in the universe of our perception. [I use the term 'continuum' to denote the mixings of variable expressions of the temporal and spatial, and then the temporal, spatial, life force. A fourth dimension I call 'spirit' (for want of better term) would be the current extent of dimensional manifestations we may perceive. Human beings are the only creatures as yet possessing the other three dimensional characteristics; Angels may have dimesnion spirit integrated into their nature, but they lack something of the 'lesser' dimensions to which they are tied (or we are tied, while alive on this planet). Thopught I'd toss that goop into the mix you've posted, with your permission. Noew, to print out the posted document and read it thoroughly. BTW, thanks for posting this thread!


13 posted on 02/27/2005 2:00:51 PM PST by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: betty boop
I'm thrilled to see you have it posted, betty boop! Sadly, I have to take care of some other things now but I'll be back to read up on all the comments this evening.
14 posted on 02/27/2005 2:09:10 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Very interesting.

It seems that one cannot understand the beginnings of life without understanding the end. Thus despite all the electical currents through the primordial ooze (Miller, Urey, et al.), I personally doubt whether we will ever penetrate the mind of God (with apologies to Paul Davies) to this extent.

All in Him that made all....

15 posted on 02/27/2005 2:23:41 PM PST by onedoug
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To: betty boop

I am just reading (again) about Kurt Godel and the Uncertainty Principle. It is a proven theorem in mathematics that posits that some truths can be true but unprovable. Also there is no way to identify or predict unprovable truths. I think there may be a conection with some of this reasoning. It seems intuitively true that the Monist view might explain all but it might never be possible to provide a proof.


16 posted on 02/27/2005 2:35:13 PM PST by muir_redwoods
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To: Alamo-Girl

Ya'll are just awesome!
I'll have to digest this and post later.


17 posted on 02/27/2005 2:39:38 PM PST by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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To: balrog666
For the record, I have no interest in such twaddle.

I thought I was a grump. You're a gump's grump.

18 posted on 02/27/2005 2:47:42 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: betty boop
Do you ladies have Cliff Notes for this article? I feel like Charlie Brown looking at the clouds with Schroeder and all that I can see are horsies and cows while you see Beethoven, Mozart, and Bach. God is good to give us mortals gifted people like you to explain the wonders of His creation.
19 posted on 02/27/2005 2:51:12 PM PST by blue-duncan
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To: PatrickHenry
I thought I was a grump. You're a grump's grump.

When your time runs short, you hate to waste it.

20 posted on 02/27/2005 3:07:44 PM PST by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
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