Posted on 02/25/2005 4:50:22 PM PST by Land of the Irish
I guess having a conversation with you is going to be pretty difficult, huh?
All over the country parishes are being closed and mess attendance is dwindling. All over the country Catholics are finding their way to Traditional Latin Masses even when their local bishops fume and gripe about it. Their demands and their prohibitions are a disgrace to their office, and when you and others like you persist in their lies of calumny and hatred, you dig yourself deeper into the pit. The blind leading the blind and you both fell in.
My words won't change your outlook, just as the words of St. John Fisher didn't change the outlook of other defectors from the Church at his time. It's the same situation today, only the apostacy is no longer individual countries, it is universal.
Yes, especially when you use language like this:
when you and others like you persist in their lies of calumny and hatred, you dig yourself deeper into the pit.
Try to refrain from insulting me by calling me a liar, and we can have a conversation.
It is a FACT that the number of people attending the TLM under the indult is less than 300,000, while a minimum 15 million Catholics attend the Novus Ordo each Sunday.
Statistically, you are simply wrong about Catholics flocking to the TLM. They're just not.
"It is a FACT that the number of people attending the TLM under the indult is less than 300,000, while a minimum 15 million Catholics attend the Novus Ordo each Sunday."
It is also a fact that this Catholic and many others would attend an Indult Mass were one available within reasonable driving distance. At present we are looking at a seven hour plus round trip.
Are there others in your area who want one? You should try to find out.
There are several folks locally who make the trip, like us, as often as they are able.
Our progressive bishop has made comments showing himself to be an enemy of tradition. A few years ago he put the skids under the parish with the best supported Traditional Liturgy in the diocese by assigning a modernist priest.
There is no doubt in my mind that as long as this Bernardin protege is bishop there will be no more Indult Masses. Each year our Masses become more liberal with such as "picnic Masses", "children's Mass canon" being said at weekend Masses, Rock and other pop-slop music.
If it gets much worse I will stay at home watch Mass on EWTN and make the trip to Portland when possible.
I will not condone sacrilige with my presence.
When Jesus said, when I return shall I find, do you think, faith on earth? was he making a joke?
How could he question whether there would be faith on earth after the great apostacy, and also predict that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church?
It's not me saying this, because the topic has been addressed by real scholars and theologians very well throughout the centuries. The corruption of the one true Faith will have to come from within the Church, from the top down. If we can't see that today, then we are one of the blind.
Welcome to the great apostacy, that "must come first."
Who said "indult"? Did I say "indult"? I know the "indult" which is acutually a lie in itself, because no "indult" is necessary for a priest to do what all the priests in history have done. The real "indult" should (properly) be for a priest to say the protestantized novus ordo, because it is the change, it is the deviation. It was never made mandatory by the pope, only illicitly by local bishops, for which they have no power to do. I did not say, nor did mean "indult."
When you go to a so-called indult, you are getting little of what you came for and a lot of what you came trying to avoid. You won't hear anything clearly critical of the rot that is being put out as "authority" from the chancery office, will you? You might want to avoid the chance that the communion hosts were leftover from novus ordo messes, but that's a given, because they USUALLY ARE. You will hear words from a priest who is very afraid of saying too much. I know several priests who have been so fed up with this living lie, that's right, living l-i-e, that they took their future by the horns and put it into God's hands, making a real leap of faith.
If anyone wants to join the debate, this is a hot topic, and there is now an ongoing exchange in the pages of the Remnant under the watch of Michael J. Matt. Anyone can weigh in...
We Catholics go to mass expecting to hear about Jesus. To hear otherwise would be highly inappropriate.
So, one has to go to an illicit SSPX Mass to "get what they came for"? How strange.
A "hot topic" at the Remnant? How many people are involved in this discussion? Five?
For all the lurkers, if you paid attention to nothing but FR, you would be under the illusion that there are hordes of Catholics just beating down doors for the Tridentine Latin Mass.
In truth, there aren't.
"For all the lurkers, if you paid attention to nothing but FR, you would be under the illusion that there are hordes of Catholics just beating down doors for the Tridentine Latin Mass."
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1237433/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/985284/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/983129/posts
Words mean things. "Indult" means special permission. "Novus Ordo" means New Order.
We now need "special permission" from the resident (possibly gay) episcopate wolf in charge of the flock if we're participating in anything other than the "New Order".
That's what I call "strange".
Here, here. By this "standard" the Apostles themselves wouldn't recognize the Church. That's why Our Lady said we would have diabolical disorientation. She wasn't kidding.
You would have to wait for the printed edition, so far. The editor only announced it in the current issue (Feb. 15th). The next one comes out in a week or so, after the 28th. He hasn't said what the format is, or what rules to follow, so you'll have to be patient.
Maybe I'll type in here, the first few paragraphs, if someone wants to see it and they don't subscribe.
So? A single gathering has nothing to do with the 100 people who show up on a weekly basis at the indult Masses in dioceses throughout the United States.
So whats the problem? Give them their Mass. It's not going to hurt anyone. Or will it........?
I agree. But a TLM Mass will only be provided where it is attended. A couple of hundred people at one Mass in a diocese indicates that's about all the interest there's going to be.
It's up to those who want the TLM to actually get others to attend it.
Check my links; I wasn't referring to the insult indult.
An even more ludicrous example of hordes flocking to the TLM.
It ain't happenin'.
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