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To: fortheDeclaration; Frumanchu
After rereading this article I see yours and Frumanchu point. Supralapsarians was indeed never formally accepted by any council although it has always been discussed throughout the church.

I looked into this a little more closely. Calvinists hold three views on this; the supralapsarian, the infralapsarian, the sublapsarian. Arminius only mentions the one (supralapsarian) and never the others in this article. Probably because he took the infralapsarian view and made a slight but significant modification (nullifying God's election of men) so that it fit with his views. A good summary (although its a little harsh on the supralapsarian view) of these views can be found at The Order of Elective Decrees

I guess I've never really thought about the order of the decrees. I'll have to look into this a tad more closer.

31 posted on 01/14/2005 5:31:11 AM PST by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
Harley, Arminius does in fact address the other views. However, he focuses in on supralapsarian as the extreme, then sort of wraps the other to into it by association, making the argument that they're really no different than supralapsarianism.

While supralapsarianism has always been present in the church, the Reformed position is and has always been infralapsarian.

As I posted previously, Arminius never accepted the Dutch Reformed Church's position on Predestination. He only agreed with the Belgic Confession insofar as he could redefine the terms therein (with the effect of completely changing the meaning of the confession).

The order of decrees is a significant issue in predestination, but it is secondary to Arminius' larger disagreement with all Calvinist lapsarian positions.

32 posted on 01/14/2005 7:52:18 AM PST by Frumanchu (I fear the sanctions of the Mediator far above the sanctions of the moderator...)
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To: HarleyD

So I read your link on Lapsarianism and thought it quite informative and to the point. Though I agree with the Calvinistic approach to predestination, I fail to see the import of the Lapsarian aspect of God's ordained will.

In my mind, there is no real order to any of these issues since order appears to constrain God to a timeline. I tend to think that all five aspects of God's ordained will occured simultaneously - no cause and effect required.


36 posted on 01/15/2005 1:07:32 PM PST by visually_augmented (I was blind, but now I see)
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