What Every Catholic Apologist Should Know About Canon Law

Planet Envoy ^ | Jan. 10, 2005 | Pete Vere, JCL

[GratianGasparri]

I BIT MY TONGUE AND RESISTED the urge to fire off an angry email. Reading through an on-line discussion board for budding Catholic apologists like myself, I had come across a message written more with an excess of zeal than with a correct understanding of canon law. Granted, the offending message was written with the best of intentions, and I also admired the offending author as a competent biblical apologist when it came to defending the Catholic faith against Protestant challenges. Nevertheless, this apologist’s competency with the Bible didn’t extend to the Code of Canon Law. And the question had come, not as an attack upon the Church, but from someone sincerely seeking to return to the Church.

[solitas]

Good on some points, weak on others; an interesting read.

[DBeers]

weak is correct:

"In case you’re wondering, the legislator is the one with the power to make new laws. The diocesan bishop is the legislator within his diocese, and he cannot delegate this power. When it comes to making laws for the entire Church, the Supreme Legislator is the Roman Pontiff. The Supreme Legislator can delegate his legislative power.

The Magisterium is the Legislator -the ONLY Legislator!

[reaganaut]

mark

[solitas]

With respect (and I know I'll be called a catholic-basher by some, but they're unimportant): God is the Legislator - and while there is much He does Say (indeed, about _any_ church) there's also much he does not say (i.e. 'rules' made by men).

The pope can be responsible for legislating the laws imposed by men, for what they are, and those wanting to belong to the organization should ascribe to them all and not cherry-pick the ones they like/dislike. Else is hypocrisy. If one wishes to place oneself under the laws and governance of men - that's their decision.

God is over all and _His_ Rule is the only one that _really_ counts.
<'EOF>

[Dominick]

God is over all and _His_ Rule is the only one that _really_ counts.

This is true, however, for the regulation of His Church, he provided St. Peter, and Peter entrusted the Church to his successor, repeat this about 300 times and today we have John-Paul II. Roughly speaking, he provides a guide to (and of) the Church to all Believers, and points to the Truth of Christ's Church on Earth.

God always trumps man, but he didn't write anything down, the Bible included. St. Jerome compiled the Gospels and Epistles, and provided a New Testament, around the year 400. Even then he did so with the approval of the Pope and Bishops at that time. Again, the Truth is pointed to by the Pope, with the Church, not created by the Church.

So your answer is correct but incomplete, unless you claim to have a direct pipeline to God. In all actuality, the Laws of the Church are for the benefit of those still alive, those who left the world, and are with God are still part of the Church, but would understand better than any on Earth.

[DBeers]

semantics -remember context... Canon Law is based upon Truth

[solitas]

LOL. yeh - repeat about 300 times with all the doubles and political machinations - it's really an "unbroken" line. Yup. :)

It doesn't matter who wrote it or who approved it - all Scripture is inspired by God and what is supposed to be in The Canon _is_ in it because He's made it so. Which individuals He did it through is irrelevant.

I _do_ have a direct pipeline to God: I can freely approach him any time I want without requiring help or permission from anyone. The same goes for my confession and His Forgiveness of my sins: me<->Him; no one and nothing else in between. And He has one with me: stirring my heart in my prayers and meditiations, in my study and reading of Scripture, in the situations I face day-to-day and where I see His Hand in them, and the results I see in answered prayer and His work in the lives and situations of others.

[sinkspur]

The Magisterium is the Legislator -the ONLY Legislator!

Who makes up the Magisterium? The Pope and bishops.

The quote in #2 is correct.

[GratianGasparri]

Ping!

[GratianGasparri]

I _do_ have a direct pipeline to God: I can freely approach him any time I want without requiring help or permission from anyone. The same goes for my confession and His Forgiveness of my sins: me<->Him; no one and nothing else in between.

If this is true, namely that nothing lay between you and God, then why should I believe anything you say? After all, you could be lying to me.

[DBeers]

Who makes up the Magisterium? The Pope and bishops.

The quote in #2 is correct.

You are incorrect -the Bishops can not act independently contravening the Magisterium regarding Canon Law -Bishops can not write new Canon Law --

Do you need me to reference a source for you?

[sinkspur]

I don't see where the article says that. It says that Bishops are the supreme legislators in their dioceses: they have the power to grant annulments, give dispensations, and interpret Canon Law for their dioceses.

[DBeers]

-maybe you missed the prefacing sentence: "In case you’re wondering, the legislator is the one with the power to make new laws."

I do not think it errant to suggest that as evidenced by this statement and observed objectively in cases of omission and or passive resistance that some Bishops perhaps interpret incorrectly in such manner this...

[GratianGasparri]

You are incorrect -the Bishops can not act independently contravening the Magisterium regarding Canon Law -Bishops can not write new Canon Law --

Do you need me to reference a source for you?

While you are well-intentioned, you're incorrect. The bishop is the legislator for his diocese, although he cannot legislate against the universal law since the Holy Father is the higher authority. The diocesan bishop does, however, legislate apart from the law or where the universal law leaves an issue up to the particular law.

For example, with regard to the age of confirmation, the Supreme Legislator (Pope John Paul II) has stated in the Code of Canon Law that it should be determined by the national episcopal conference. This means each national episcopal conference legislates its own age of confirmation. In the case of the USCCB, they requested from the Holy See recognitio of a law allowing each bishop to legislate for his own diocese. The Holy Father granted this recognitio. So each bishop legislates for his own diocese.

[solitas]

If this is true, namely that nothing lay between you and God, then why should I believe anything you say?

Um, HUH? Your statement makes no sense as it is written. Explain, please?

After all, you could be lying to me.

AND, you could be lying to me, your pastor could be lying to you, his bishop could be lying to him, monsignor, cardinal (or whatever order they're in), pope, vatican as-a-whole... there's no end. If you don't believe me: disregard my words and go away. Simple as that.

[DBeers]

You are incorrect to broadly suggest Universal Law is the barrier. A Bishop can not legislate against any Canon Law relevant to his jurisdiction or interpret contrary to the the body of law comprising Magisterial interpretation. Further, in matters of juris prudence, the Magisterium is final authority.

Finally, Code of Canon Law may be determined by national episcopal conference only under the authority of the Magisterium and incorporated only with the approval of the Magisterium. Once approved -Canon Law is not to be deviated from without approval of the Magisterium.

[GratianGasparri]

If this is true, namely that nothing lay between you and God, then why should I believe anything you say?

Um, HUH? Your statement makes no sense as it is written. Explain, please?

Simply put, if nothing can stand between you and God, then you could lie to me and it wouldn't mean anything. So how do I know you're not lying to me?

[GratianGasparri]

I don't think you are understanding me, or canon law, correctly. You're approaching canon law as if it is exclusively the universal law, that is, the law legislatted for the whole Church. Only the Holy Father OR the bishops in union with the Holy Father, can legislate universal law.

That being said, the universal law is only part of canon law. There is also particular law -- that is, in this context, law particular to a diocese or nation. WHile the Holy Father can legislate particular law, for the most part he leaves that up to the bishop or national episcopal conference.

A Bishop can not legislate against any Canon Law relevant to his jurisdiction or interpret contrary to the the body of law comprising Magisterial interpretation.

I don't recall suggesting that he can. Rather, I stated a bishop may legislate where:

1) the universal law leaves it up to him to legislate what's best for his diocese. This is known as legislation in conformity with the universal law.

2) The universal law is silent concerning a matter. This is known as legislation apart from the universal law.

What you are thinking about is a bishop who attempts to legislate against what the Holy Father has legislated for the universal Church. This would be an attempt at legislation contrary to the universal law. It would also be invalid since a lower legislator cannot contradict a higher legislator.

Further, in matters of juris prudence, the Magisterium is final authority.

Again, nobody is challenging this. But a final authority does not exclude lower authorities, particularly when the final authority provides for the lower authority. Simply put, just as Congress and the Senate have better things to do than legislate minor parking violations in Slackjaw, AK, the Holy Father has more pressing needs on his time than to legislate the age of confirmation for 3000 different dioceses.