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To: RnMomof7
RE: By placing yourself under the law, you now must do the impossible... you now must keep it PERFECTLY , you will be judged as you have chosen. Not on the perfectness of Christi or His righteousness.. but by your inability to keep it PERFECTLY and you will fail Doug

Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.

The purpose of the law was to show us we needed a Saviour.

Why are you stuck on that same old line "you must do it perfectly"? Jesus told you all you had to do was REPENT, love God, and love your neighbor. The scripture Jesus studied, the OT, says the same thing.

Now, regarding your reference to James...

IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED BY MANY BIBLICAL SCHOLARS, THAT THE BOOK OF JAMES DESCRIBES THE ACTUAL TEACHINGS OF JESUS' BROTHER JAMES. THROUGH THESE VERSES, FROM THE BOOK OF JAMES, YOU WILL CLEARLY SEE THAT THE THEOLOGY OF JAMES IS MUCH MORE IN LINE WITH THAT OF JESUS AND IN OPPOSITION TO PAUL'S. YOU WILL SEE THAT JAMES NOT ONLY DID NOT ADVOCATE DOING AWAY WITH THE LAW, BUT MAKES IT CLEAR THAT WITHOUT THE LAW "FAITH" IS DEAD. PAUL WE KNOW OFTEN STATED THAT "FAITH" WAS ALL THAT YOU NEEDED AND THAT THE LAW WAS DEAD.

JAM002:008 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

JAM002:009 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

JAM002:010 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

JAM002:011 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

JAM002:012 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

JAM002:013 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

JAM002:014 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

JAM002:015 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

JAM002:016 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

JAM002:017 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

JAM002:018 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

JAM002:019 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

JAM002:020 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

JAM002:021 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

JAM002:022 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

JAM002:023 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

JAM002:024 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

JAM002:025 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

JAM002:026 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

AS YOU SEE, JAMES STATED THAT YOU CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE AND IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH PAUL.

HOW CAN THEY BOTH BE SPEAKING THE WORD OF GOD? WHAT JAMES WROTE CERTAINLY SEEMED TO BE MORE IN LINE WITH WHAT JESUS SAID THAN WHAT WE READ IN PAUL'S EPISTLES. HAD JAMES' POINT OF VIEW WON OUT OVER PAUL'S, CHRISTIANITY WOULD BE VERY DIFFERENT TODAY. I AM COMPELLED TO SAY THAT THE CHRISTIANITY OF JAMES WOULD BE FAR MORE COMPATIBLE WITH JESUS' TEACHINGS, AND JUDAISM GENERALLY, THAN THE THEOLOGY OF PAUL.

WOULD YOU BELIEVE JAMES OR A MAN LIKE PAUL, WHO NOT ONLY NEVER MET JESUS, BUT KILLED PEOPLE FOR FOLLOWING JESUS' TEACHINGS?

Sorry for the caps. Taken from the link i posted earlier.

http://www.mindspring.com/~sjayg7/sample.htm

130 posted on 01/15/2005 12:38:30 PM PST by 1 spark (Jesus was a Jew)
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To: 1 spark
AS YOU SEE, JAMES STATED THAT YOU CAN NOT BE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH ALONE AND IS IN DIRECT CONFLICT WITH PAUL.

They are not in conflict, but agreement. What has happened is that Pauls words have been twisted throughout history, beginning in biblical times:

2Pe 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
2Pe 3:16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

The untaught and unstable are those who don't understand the law or the covenants...you konw..the ones who think that everything in the books of the old testament are irrelevent. They twist Pauls meanings to mean that man has license to sin under Christ because the law is "done away with". James addresses this, as does Paul.

136 posted on 01/15/2005 12:48:00 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: 1 spark
I am well familiar with the book of James..

It does not address the levitical law which has been the topic of this discussion

James is not saying that we need 'works' to be saved.

His point is How does the world know we are saved?

God knows those that are his, but how does the world know ? By the witness of our lives .

Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

If "works " do not flow out of our salvation, then there is no salvation

This is as good a summary as I have seen

James, however, is writing solely to Jews, who from infancy have been raised with the Scriptures and knew what they taught...who were likely impacted by the ministry of John the Baptist...who may have heard the teachings of Christ Himself...and who had enjoyed the benefit of at least 15 years of Apostolic teaching. Believers such as this were held to a higher standard than the Gentile or Jewish converts outside of Palestine, and reasonably were expected by now to show the proper fruits of true salvation based on the teaching they would have received.

His reason for writing is not, as in the case of Paul, to outline the formula of salvation, adding the need for Works which Paul apparently fails to convey clearly (remember James was writing to educated Jewish converts, who presumably already knew the basis of soul-saving salvation was God’s forgiveness of sin through blood atonement achieved by faith in Messiah’s sacrifice); what he’s actually doing is illustrating what sort of faith actually Saves a person by rebuking hypocrites in the church who claimed to have faith in Christ as Messiah but yet had no visible evidence of that faith in their lives.

This to James marked them as Christians in name only, just as Jesus rebuked hypocrites within the Pharisee movement who, while they obeyed every commandment of God they could find, lacked the light and love of God in their lives on a practical level. James understood that true Christians should display the love of God in their lives by their actions, but while these so-called believers paid lip service to Christianity, their lifestyles weren’t adding up. James is thus doing no differently than Paul, in the book of 1st Corinthians, who is rebuking the church for tolerating open sin in the fellowship. He is, however, coming at the subject on a slightly different path than Paul, emphasizing that true faith demonstrates itself by a change in lifestyle and that, absent this evidence by what he calls “Works”, the sort of faith had by the individual obviously lacks the ability to actually Save the person from God’s wrath.

"New christian handbook"

143 posted on 01/15/2005 1:02:04 PM PST by RnMomof7
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