Posted on 01/07/2005 7:47:31 PM PST by DouglasKC
Check your mail
The clearest statement of his divinity is here and he is almost stoned for stating it:
Joh 8:56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad."
Joh 8:57 So the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?"
Joh 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
Joh 8:59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
Pretty unambiguous...at least to me and the Pharisees.
It does not address the levitical law which has been the topic of this discussion
James is not saying that we need 'works' to be saved.
His point is How does the world know we are saved?
God knows those that are his, but how does the world know ? By the witness of our lives .
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
If "works " do not flow out of our salvation, then there is no salvation
This is as good a summary as I have seen
James, however, is writing solely to Jews, who from infancy have been raised with the Scriptures and knew what they taught...who were likely impacted by the ministry of John the Baptist...who may have heard the teachings of Christ Himself...and who had enjoyed the benefit of at least 15 years of Apostolic teaching. Believers such as this were held to a higher standard than the Gentile or Jewish converts outside of Palestine, and reasonably were expected by now to show the proper fruits of true salvation based on the teaching they would have received.
His reason for writing is not, as in the case of Paul, to outline the formula of salvation, adding the need for Works which Paul apparently fails to convey clearly (remember James was writing to educated Jewish converts, who presumably already knew the basis of soul-saving salvation was God’s forgiveness of sin through blood atonement achieved by faith in Messiah’s sacrifice); what he’s actually doing is illustrating what sort of faith actually Saves a person by rebuking hypocrites in the church who claimed to have faith in Christ as Messiah but yet had no visible evidence of that faith in their lives.
This to James marked them as Christians in name only, just as Jesus rebuked hypocrites within the Pharisee movement who, while they obeyed every commandment of God they could find, lacked the light and love of God in their lives on a practical level. James understood that true Christians should display the love of God in their lives by their actions, but while these so-called believers paid lip service to Christianity, their lifestyles weren’t adding up. James is thus doing no differently than Paul, in the book of 1st Corinthians, who is rebuking the church for tolerating open sin in the fellowship. He is, however, coming at the subject on a slightly different path than Paul, emphasizing that true faith demonstrates itself by a change in lifestyle and that, absent this evidence by what he calls “Works”, the sort of faith had by the individual obviously lacks the ability to actually Save the person from God’s wrath.
"New christian handbook"
Doug that says noting about a second chance not one word...
Do you believe Jesus was God ?
We all existed before we were born, even Jesus. G-d knew us all before we were born.
Looks more like a shabby translation. Probably should have been 'was' instead of am.
I can't do that ET because it's not true. Merely believing that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh isn't going to save you. Demons certainly believe that and they certainly aren't saved.
I would say that God knows we are going to be born because he's outside of time. But within time we don't exist before we are born. Adam didn't exist before God formed him. We don't exist until we are formed by God in the womb.
Here's the Biblical Unitarian take on that particular verse, incase you're interested.
http://biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=100
Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 146 AV - I am + 1473 74, am 55, it is I + 1473 6, be 2, I was + 1473 1, have been 1, not tr 7; 146
And if Jesus was G-d then why the battle of wills in the garden of Gethsemane? Is G-d always indecisive?
Then people are not required to believe that Jesus is G-d to be saved? Cool, I can buy that one, because he isn't.
Ahhh the battle of the cults... I love it
Have a good time guys :>)
Sure I did. You don't believe me though. There's nothing I can do about that.
You also haven't shown any verse from Acts where it was necessary for anyone to profess that Jesus wsas G-d to be saved.
Already 'splained...
And if Jesus was G-d then why the battle of wills in the garden of Gethsemane? Is G-d always indecisive?
Because Christ became man with all of mans inclinations to rebel against the father. Lucky for us he overame temptation and the pull of the flesh to lead a sinless life and become the captain of our salvation.
Yeah, it's much harder than that. You actually have to repent of violating God's laws, be bapitized in the name of Christ and receive God's spirit.
I can read Doug, he never claimed to be G-d in that verse. Sheesh.
Because Christ became man with all of mans inclinations to rebel against the father.
But, you said that YHWH and Jesus were one and the same. So is Jesus rebelling against himself? When he says that he has to ascend to his Father and our Father, his G-d and our G-d, does G-d have a G-d?
Nope, it seems quite clear that they are not one and the same.
I prefer the term "evangelism". Same approach I take with you Terry... :-)
You can recieve G-d's spirit without being baptised.
Well:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
This was of course talking about:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
This portion of the Godhead, the word, the messiah...became flesh and dwelt among us. The father portion of the Godhead stayed put.
In extraordinary circumstances, yes. But not as a rule. Baptism nearly always precedes the receiving of God's spirit. But getting baptized doesn't guarantee it. Repentence is first needed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.