Posted on 01/02/2005 1:59:29 PM PST by wagglebee
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, the chief architect of Pope John Paul II's traditionalist moral policy, has long been a bugaboo for liberal Catholics. But they had stopped worrying that the German might one day ascend to St. Peter's throne. His hard-line views and blunt approach had earned him the epithet of panzerkardinal and too many enemies. Well, their worrying may now resume. Sources in Rome tell TIME that Ratzinger has re-emerged as the top papal candidate within the Vatican hierarchy, joining other front runners such as Dionigi Tettamanzi of Milan and Claudio Hummes of Sao Paolo. "The Ratzinger solution is definitely on," said a well-placed Vatican insider.
(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...
There you go, making up numbers. The billion is strictly on paper. Most wouldn't know a Mass from a Sunday at McDonald's. Besides, we count as traditionalists the vast majority of the Communion of Saints. Let's not forget the apostles were traditionalists. They wouldn't be caught dead at a clown Mass.
"That makes perfect sense."
Sure does.
The Novus Ordo is much closer to that Mass celebrated by the apostles than the accretion-riddled Tridentine Mass.
Then why is it called New Order?
If the Pope were to die tomorrow, there is only one man who could conceivably become Pope, Abp. Justin Cardinal Rigali of Philadelphia. He studied in Rome, and was consecrated to the episcopacy by Pope John Paul II, himself.
In time, there is another archbishop who might be considered papabile, Raymond Burke, who succeeded Rigali in his former see of St. Louis. Burke not only studied in Rome and was consecrated by Pope John Paul II, but he was ordained by Pope Paul VI. It is a rare honor to be ordained by a Pope.
Both are conservatives who are big on pieties, such as adoration.
The Pope reportedly indicated in 2003 that the man he expected to be the next Pope had not yet been elevated to the cardinalate. Rigali was elevated the next month, with about thirty others, few of them being Italian or seeming likely candidates.
>>Damn, I thought I'd be on the list.
>>Damn, if I was, that would have killed my chances.
:^D.
Damn, They never pick a Mennonite.
Why does that disqualify Arinze to you? Is the Opus Dei heretical? Is the Chicago center radical? Does going there signal support for heresies? Or did you mean that *others* would never tolerate Arinze for assocating with Opus Dei?
Whoops... I meant only one AMERICAN man who could become Pope. Obviously, there are many elsewhere who are more likely.
Fellay is the biggest fish in a small pond. That pond being faithful Catholics practicing authentic Catholicism. It's not his fault that the other fish went and "flopped" onto the conciliar beach. He would easily cede the pond over to a bigger fish (ie. the Pope) but unfortunatly, the Pope can't seem to sweem anymore in the Catholic faith. He's "evolved" out of it and is crawling around in the primordial slime out of which the "dignity of man" expresses himselt to himself in a "special" way that was previously unknown on a conscious level.
"The Novus Ordo is much closer to that Mass celebrated by the apostles than the accretion-riddled Tridentine Mass"
I know you'd like to believe that, but it just isn't true. To give one example--where are the references to the traditional Roman saints and martyrs? They are deleted. Can't have them interceding for us and offending Protestants. It's a self-deceptive myth to think somebody like Bugnini could have filled in the historical gaps to recreate an ancient rite. What he came up with in fact was a mundane worship service patterned after the Lutheran Lord's Supper.
Hummes took 26 years to go from Bishop to Cardinal. That sounds like someone who fell off their career trajectory.
Anyone know what happened to Tettamanzi? Get this: He took 30 years to become Bishop. He resigned at 57, having served less than two years. Four years later, he was appointed Abp of Genova. Must've popped back on the radar screen when 4 years later he was reassigned to Abp of Milano, often seen as a potential stepping stone to Bp of Rome. (Pius XI and Paul VI were both reassigned to Milano before ascending to the papacy.
"The Novus Ordo is much closer to that Mass celebrated by the apostles than the accretion-riddled Tridentine Mass"
Did they have polka Masses back then?
>>>>"The Novus Ordo is much closer to that Mass celebrated by the apostles than the accretion-riddled Tridentine Mass"
>>I know you'd like to believe that, but it just isn't true. To give one example--where are the references to the traditional Roman saints and martyrs?
Ummm. Two points:
1. Of course you realize that the mass celebrated by the apostles did not include any references to the Roman saints and martyrs.
2. There are a few different liturgical prayers, and I'm not sure if they all refer to the traditional Roman saints and martyrs, but I've lived in a lot of parishes in several of the most liberal and heretical dioceses. And I learned about Stes. Perpetua and Felicity mostly because I was curious to know who these saints we were always praying with were. So they're still in *most* NO masses anyway.
Well, most hadn't died yet, but you will find a nice recitation of saints in Eucharistic Prayer I.
One wierdo priest somewhere among 40,000 priests in the USA alone comes up with a stupid idea for a mass, and you represent the entire N.O. liturgy on the one instance. But I'll tell you what: they sure didn't have organ masses in 50 AD, either.
Did they have bare-breasted lectors?
How about Aztec dancers praying to false gods just before the Consecration? Cool.
I am simply reminding you that the Old Catholics contended that they, not Vatican I, represented the True Faith.
"You belong to a sect that has a million members and you want me to wring my hands over a Church that has a billion people in it?--Sinky 2005 A.D."
"You belong to a sect that has 12 Apostles as founding members and you want me to wring my hands over an Empire that has a millions of people in it?"--Nero 64 A.D.
Vatican I was not the beginning of a revolution. There are no parallels between what's been happening the past forty years and the preconciliar Church. We once had a Church that was a refuge of stability in an uncertain world; now we have a Church in search of its vocation. It's falling apart before our eyes. All traditionalists are doing is holding tight to what has always been believed. We're not buying the Pope's new universalist religion.
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