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To: The Grammarian; N3WBI3; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe

Very long article, but interesting reading.


2 posted on 12/27/2004 9:42:43 PM PST by xzins (The Party Spirit -- why I don't take the other side seriously!)
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To: xzins; The Grammarian; N3WBI3; Dr. Eckleburg
Very long article, but interesting reading.

Do you have the reader's digest version?

4 posted on 12/27/2004 9:50:14 PM PST by P-Marlowe
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To: xzins; Dr. Eckleburg; P-Marlowe; ScottM1968
From another long one:

"The New Testament makes it plain that Christian women, like men, have been given spiritual gifts (1 Corinthians 12:7-11). Women, like men, are to use these gifts to minister to the body of Christ (1 Peter 4:10); their ministries are indispensable to the life and growth of the church (1 Corinthians 12:12-26). There are many examples in the New Testament of just such ministries on the part of gifted Christian women (see Chapter 5 in this volume). To be true to the New Testament, then, the contemporary church needs to honor those varied ministries of women and to encourage women to pursue them.

"But does the New Testament place any restrictions on the ministry of women? From the earliest days of the apostolic church, most orthodox Christians have thought so. One important reason they have thought so is the teaching of 1 Timothy 2:8-15:

(8)I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing. (9)I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, (10)but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. (11)A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. (12)I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent. (13)For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. (15)But women will be kept safe through childbirth, if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
"Has the church been right to think that this passage imposes certain permanent restrictions on the ministry of women? Certainly this is what the passage, as translated above, seems to say. Women are not to teach or to have authority over men. They are not to do so because of the order in which God created man and woman and because of how man and woman fell into sin. However, many in our day think this passage does not require the contemporary church to limit the ministry of women. Others think it may limit only certain women from certain ministries in certain circumstances. ...

"Yet there are many sincere Christians who agree with everything we have just said but still do not think that 1 Timothy 2:8-15 puts any general restriction on the ministry of women in the contemporary church. Are they right? Has the position of the Christian church on this issue for twenty centuries been the product of cultural conditioning from which we finally are able to free ourselves?

"We do not think so. We think 1 Timothy 2:8-15 imposes two restrictions on the ministry of women: they are not to teach Christian doctrine to men and they are not to exercise authority directly over men in the church. These restrictions are permanent, authoritative for the church in all times and places and circumstances as long as men and women are descended from Adam and Eve. In this essay, we will attempt to justify these conclusions. In doing so, we will be concerned particularly to show why the arguments for alternative interpretations are not convincing."

Excerpt from What Does It Mean Not to Teach or Have Authority Over Men: 1 Timothy 2:11-15 by Douglas Moo

43 posted on 12/28/2004 7:54:43 AM PST by topcat54
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To: xzins
One more thing, I forgot to mention previously. I found it both telling and intellectually dishonest that Ms. Sharon Clark Pearson in her lengthy exposition “Women in Ministry a Biblical View” conveniently excluded Paul's declaration in 1 Tim. 2:13-14 which clearly cites the two reasons why God’s Word says women are prohibited from serving as pastors/teachers, who both teach and exercise authority over men. She, omitted dealing with these verses because the order of creation and the woman’s role in the historic fall of our first parents Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden form the crux of God’s prohibition and these two reasons for His ban are insurmountable because they have nothing to do with society, culture or changing times or norms.

"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression." (1 Tim. 2:13-14)

God does not contradict Himself; the two reasons for this prohibition stated in 1 Timothy 2:13-14 stand to this very day and nothing can change them. Therefore, it is clear that it is not God’s will; He does not permit women to serve in this capacity.

229 posted on 12/31/2004 5:41:23 AM PST by Jmouse007 ("Negotiate and die!" Brought to you by "Islam the Religion of Peace tm")
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To: xzins; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; Dr. Eckleburg
First Corinthians 11:2-16 has been debated at length. The breadth of the arguments are best explained as arising out of what appears to be a contradiction in the text between vv. 4-7 and vv. 10-12.[11] Verses 4-7 require that women submit to the norms of their culture regarding head covering: "every woman who prays or prophesies with her kephale (head) uncovered (the word "veil" does not occur in this text) dishonors her head ... let her keep her head covered."[12] Verses 10-12 are Paul's corrective; women may wear a covering over their heads or may not: "For this reason the woman ought to have exousia (power, right or freedom of choice, the ability to, do something) over (covering) her head" (v. 10; cf. John 10:18, Acts 9:14, and Rev. 16:9 for the use of exousia with echo, and 1 Cor. 9 for exousia).[13] The Greek term authority should be translated as it is-that women should have "authority" over their heads. It should not to be trans­lated as sign of authority or veil.[14]

Would you please clarify the translating of verse 10? Some common translations follow, that are in disagreement with the author's exegesis.

The NKJV renders verse 10, "For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

The NIV, "For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."

KJV, "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

230 posted on 12/31/2004 9:19:42 AM PST by suzyjaruki (Love God and do as you please - Augustine)
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