Posted on 12/12/2004 3:26:17 PM PST by NYer
The Chicago Tribune reports that when some members of Amor de Dios United Methodist Church in an area called Little Village elected to move a statue of the Virgin of Guadalupe into the sanctuary last year, "the icon spawned an exodus."
Turned off by the introduction of a Roman Catholic tradition to a Protestant congregation, most of the church's 15 founding parishioners drifted away. To them, venerating the Virgin Mary and reciting the rosary did not belong in a Methodist church.
But this is part of a trend nationwide: mainline Protestant churches and even some evangelical ones (in places like California, with a strong Mexican populace) are accepting the veneration of statues, which for decades has been misinterpreted as idolatry. Pastors of other Hispanic Methodist congregations objected too. Meanwhile, and curiously,
Roman Catholics in the neighborhood fret that the church might be selling itself as something it was not.
"Rev. Jose Landaverde allowed the statue to stay," reports the newspaper. "He says he sees no harm in embracing a tradition--the Virgin is an unofficial national symbol of Mexico--that might bring people closer to God. 'It's coming from the people, which is the real presence of the Holy Spirit,' said Landaverde, 31, a student pastor from Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary. 'You cannot bring theological debates to the people when they need spiritual assistance.'"
The Tribune reports that this month, parishioners celebrated their first novena in honor of the Virgin of Guadalupe by parading the two-foot-high statue around the neighborhood, singing songs and reciting the rosary. "About two dozen parishioners weathered the chill each night to deliver the statue to a different living room, where it was surrounded by garland, twinkling lights, roses and poinsettias. On Sunday, parishioners will commence the traditional Feast Day for the Virgin of Guadalupe and, through prayers, mariachi music, drama and dancing, pay homage. 'The Virgin understands our suffering and she accompanies us everywhere we go,' said church member Oscar Hernandez, who grew up Roman Catholic in El Salvador but now considers himself a Methodist. 'We don't want to take away the faith that this community has, but we want to nourish it.'"
The parish council discerned that something was missing--the Virgin of Guadalupe.
"Since I was little, it's always been right to have the Virgin Mary in the church," said Olivia Serrato, 40, one of the original parishioners who decided to stay after the Virgin was introduced. "It's now a great honor to bring the Virgin Mary to my Methodist church. Before I didn't feel complete."
Where in the Mass is Mary elevated over Jesus? I ask this as a Catholic who doesn't and has never seen that. Am I missing something?
As a very traditional, hard-core, "no idols for me" type Protestant, I find that I cannot reject out of hand the Marian aparitions. There's something going on here, and it happens to Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Confucians and so forth. Even the Koran mysteriously contains a very elaborate Praise of Mary. If you think you have troubles with this, imagine the problems your typical Imam has! (ROTFLMAO)
BUMP
Don't they still have Guy Fawkes Day?
When did you see "the elevation of Mary" during Holy Mass?
These folks are obviously still clinging to their Catholic roots. They need to find a Roman Catholic parish to join. They are not theologically Protestant, why are they going to a Methodist church?
Yes we do,(some of the language is changed a bit), as I mentioned earlier.
Not all UMC churches do this.
I did not criticize your religion. I was explaining why the Virgin will not be acceptable in a UMC church. It and other iconic stuff in the Catholic and subsequently the Anglican Church is a big part of the reason Methodists left in the first place.
For you Catholics; why do you need the mother to draw you to the son? Aren't you drawn to Him already?
You've lost me! I don't understand. Sorry.
How sad that some feel they can't pray directly to God. They put all these obstacles in front of Him. What? Is He too busy to hear their prayers?
When did you see a Catholic church without a statue of Mary?
I am not saying that Catholics, as our Jewish brethren, do not acknowledge Jesus as God, only that his name is not a big part of the service as it is in a protestant church.
You are responding to what another poster said as a question and now I gotta FReep my way though a bunch of bent out of shape Catholics to post about a protestant church thread which is really getting irritating.
Too put it simply if we were all one church again, There would be no empty parking spaces in the churches that had the Divine Liturgy because of all the refugees from the Novus Ordo.
Ah! I suspect, with all due respect, that you are probably right. On the other hand, we'd have to expand the parking lot here; already full most Sundays!
I'd be one of the first over. I love the old Latin Mass, but if my choice is the new one, which seems like something even Marin Luther could love, or your Liturgy of Saint John C (I won't try to spell it right now because I'll mess it up) well.... no contest.
Mary is the Mother of Jesus, we are His brothers and sisters, so Mary is our Mother as well. Though she did not physically give birth to us, she gave Jesus the Sacred Body of which we have become members (Ephesians 5:29). We are all united to the very same Flesh which Jesus drew from the Virgin, so she is, in a very real sense, our Mother in the order of the Redemption.
Catholics know that Jesus is God and Mary is not. Therefore our devotion to her does not overshadow her Son.
In the course of your working career, have you ever asked for a raise in pay? Was this addressed to the CEO or your boss, who 'interceded' on your behalf.
Catholics pray to Jesus; occasionally we also ask our 'friends' for assistance, since they are already in the Kingdom of Heaven.
When a protestant accepts Jesus as his/her Saviour, the relationship becomes personal since he died for "My" sins, not "our" sins.
I think that might be the difficulty in understanding. But, it is a small one for me, I accept the differences. Others may take it more personal, but I don't.
I just want to be more like Him. I prefer the more personal relationship. But that is just me. On the other hand,it seems logical to have plenty of help.
Carry on!
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