Posted on 12/07/2004 11:43:45 AM PST by hiho hiho
HONOLULU (12-1-2004)--After a tumultuous year, the Most Rev. Frank T. Griswold -who presides over 2.5 million Episcopalians in 113 dioceses - may have hoped his first visit to Hawai'i would be full of fun, frolic and flowers.
During a recent visit to the all-girls St. Andrew's Priory School, there may have been a lot of flowers ("I'm not sure I'm going to be able to see over these," he joked as lei were piled on by the presidents of the various grades), but when he sat down with 24 high school sophomores, the hardball questions came fast and furious.
The first few went straight to the heart of an issue threatening to tear apart not only individual churches, but an entire denomination: "Why does the Bible call homosexuality a sin?" "What is the view of the Episcopal church on this?" And "Do most Episcopalians agree on this issue?"
These are questions the denomination itself has been struggling with since the controversial election of Bishop Gene Robinson of New Hampshire, the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop.
Griswold told the girls that when the matter is viewed in a historical context, they would realize that biblical writers did not have access to information that helps people today make different judgments. These wouldn't be the only tough questions fired in Griswold's direction during the 45-minute class. The students had given their teacher, Pam Kennedy, a list of others, which she organized into categories, social and theological issues.
After Griswold addressed those, sitting ramrod straight in his chair, he was peppered with others. Cassie Hurlbut asked about the future in the church of gay marriages. Michelle Owen asked him about taking a literal interpretation of the Bible. Yet another girl asked about the church's stance on Iraq. The girls listened intently as he addressed other issues, including abortion, the use of the term "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance, and whether truth can be found in other religions. But perhaps Griswold was most at ease, and the class most enthralled, when Caressa Matsuoka posed this one:
"How did you know you wanted to be an Episcopalian?"
It gave him a chance to lean back and tell of his days in an all-boys Episcopal boarding school.
His beginning drew a giggles:
"When I was several months old, without any say in the matter, I was baptized ...," he began.
Griswold went on to describe his friends laughing when a priest suggested that he might make a good clergyman. But somewhere, the seed was planted.
"I was born into it, but I had to make conscious choices along the way," he ended.
For a parochial school in which less than 5 percent of the 504-student enrollment is Episcopalian, it's a timely question, too. The church in Hawai'i has been struggling with falling membership, a trend that many see hopeful signs of reversing. Last year, for example, 12 girls and a faculty member were baptized in the Episcopal Church, said Susan Champion, the school chaplain.
The class question-and-answer session came after a full morning of events, beginning with a schoolwide chapel service, in which Griswold exhorted the girls to be like Queen Emma. He also blessed the historic coral cross in the central courtyard, then met with the lower-school students for a blessing.
Throughout his visit, he reminded the girls that his wife, Phoebe, went to an all-girls school. He emphasized the importance of women's education.
During one blessing, Griswold reminded the girls of their duty to God and community:
"May these future leaders in Hawai'i and beyond grow up as symbols of love and encouragement to all around them."
END
Out of the mouth of babes!
Deslimed translation: "Gays didn't have pressure groups back then." ;)
Griswold told the girls that when the matter is viewed in a historical context, they would realize that biblical writers did not have access to information that helps people today make different judgments. Translation: "We're smarter than the Bible now."
Is there a special wing in Hell for thinking like this?
Whether or not homosexual inclination is chosen, homosexual activity is an act and hence voluntary. As the act is what is sinful, not the inclination, God only asks that the acts not be done. Therefore, if Griswold is right and the ancients did not know that some people have a deep-seated homosexual condition (and there is no evidence that Griswold is right -- how does he know that's true for the inspired writers of the Bible? -- was he there? -- Could he read minds?), it makes no difference to divinely inspired teaching that homosexual activity is sinful and wrong.
The moral essence of the law of Moses is what is binding upon Christians. The specifics of punishment and dietary rules of the Mosaic law are not binding.
***I wonder why Christians don't take that mandate seriously.***
Probably because Christians are not bound by Mosaic Law.
Next question...
Bueller...
***Its not a matter of being bound to a law***
I answered your question.
You don't like the answer.
Are you interested in a real discussion or are you just a stone-thrower?
I see you new here.
It says no such thing. Homosexual acts are sinful, not the inclination. You are conflating inclination and acts, as gay activists typically and illogically do to advance their agenda of justifying sinful acts.
"The bible also says that people that practice homosexuality should be put to death. I wonder why Christians don't take that mandate seriously."
Don't forget adulterers! They need to DIE too, just like in the Old Testament! Stone 'em all!
The act is implied, and the Church has always held the acts to be sinful, not the inclination. Scripture is interpreded by the authenitc magisterium, and Sacred Tradition confirms this interpretation.
***Stone 'em all!***
Actually, the Bible says everyone who sins is condemned to death...
"The soul who sins shall die." - Ezekiel 18
"Scripture is interpreded by the authenitc magisterium, and Sacred Tradition confirms this interpretation."
The who and the what?? Scripture most certainly does hold the inclination accountable as well as the act.
So desire is sinful only if is not fulfilled? Once the lust is fulfilled in the flesh and not just in the mind, it is no longer sin?
That's certainly a different twist on things.
Where? All humans are subject to concupiscence, i.e., inclination to sin. God cannot hold us at fault for ideas that come into our head, but rather what we do with the ideas once they are there. Except for original sin, sin by definition is an act voluntarily chosen.
"Actually, the Bible says everyone who sins is condemned to death... "
Blzbba says that everyone is condemned to death. To date, there's no person who's been proven to be immortal.
Unless you consider Enoch and Elijah
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