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We all worship allah!
Catholic Diocese of Lake Charles, Louisiana ^ | November 2004 | Bishop Braxton

Posted on 11/28/2004 3:42:04 PM PST by AskStPhilomena

If you accept monotheism, the belief that there is only one God, you realize that Yahweh, The God of Israel, Abba Father, the God of Jesus Christ and Allah the God of Islam is the SAME God, since there is only one God. Judaism does not have God, Christianity does not have God, Islam does not have God. If the God in whom we believe IS God, then we do not have God. God has us!

(Excerpt) Read more at lcdiocese.org ...


TOPICS: Activism; Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Other non-Christian; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; crisis; indifferentism
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To: armydoc
Jesus said the Pharisee's father was the devil. Not because they were hippocrites, but because they did not recognize Jesus as God.

Since this is so "clear", it is interesting that it took the church 300 years to dogmatically declare this as orthodox Christian doctrine.

you cannot honor/worship/recognize the Father without the Son.

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. (Romans 8:14)

81 posted on 11/29/2004 11:20:45 AM PST by malakhi
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To: daylate-dollarshort

I haven't sent you any hostile email. I agree with you. I'll go you one better, any religion that denies the divinity of Our Lord Jesus, that He is God the Son, the second person of the Blessed Trinity is a false religion. It cannot be of God.


82 posted on 11/29/2004 11:20:58 AM PST by murphE (fight terrorism in the womb END ABORTION NOW)
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To: AskStPhilomena

I worship allah every time I stand at a urinal.


83 posted on 11/29/2004 11:22:59 AM PST by 68 grunt (3/1 India, 3rd, 68-69, 0311)
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To: malakhi

"Since this is so "clear", it is interesting that it took the church 300 years to dogmatically declare this as orthodox Christian doctrine."

To which "church" are you referring? The RCC, in its catechism, states that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.


84 posted on 11/29/2004 11:29:12 AM PST by armydoc
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To: murphE
any religion that denies the divinity of Our Lord Jesus, that He is God the Son, the second person of the Blessed Trinity is a false religion.

Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion. However, even though I find your theology and scriptural interpretation faulty, I will not do you the discourtesy of calling yours a false religion.

85 posted on 11/29/2004 11:29:33 AM PST by malakhi
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To: armydoc
To which "church" are you referring? The RCC, in its catechism, states that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

I'm referring to the generally accepted (by Christians, of course) councils of the 4th century. From the time of the apostles until the time of Nicea, there were numerous competing "christologies". The "orthodox" formulations of the divinity of Jesus and of the trinity did not come into their final form until the end of the 4th century. At which time all earlier christologies were retroactively labelled "heresies".

86 posted on 11/29/2004 11:34:17 AM PST by malakhi
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To: TBP
Is there one God or many?

In England a bonnet is the hood of a car, not a hat. Is there one bonnet or many?

87 posted on 11/29/2004 1:48:34 PM PST by stripes1776
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To: stripes1776

Your response is not a response. It is evasive and irrleevant to the point.


88 posted on 11/29/2004 1:57:53 PM PST by TBP
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To: AskStPhilomena
Sadly, I somewhat agree with that sentiment. I've taken a few world cultures and religion classes as well as some modern thought, psychology, mythology etc... God is (supposedly) everything and everywhere, why then would he not be there?

I don't agree that to deny this theory is to deny God, everyone has their own deep beliefs whether they follow the strict tenets of a fatih or not.

It is said that one can only fall as far as one is high, Satan (the arch-angel lucifer) was never "ultimate good" so therefore he cannot be "ultimate evil". He is the most evil being in all of creation. God is the "ultimate good" in creation, so it would stand to reason that only he would know ultimate evil.

DISCLAIMER; These are only my opinions and what I've learned as a Catholic (Roman/Byzantine/Ukranian) and in various classes at Penn State. They are not intended to cause a ruckus or stir an argument. Any similarity to a written work could have been any number of term papers I wrote, or a literary work I have read, in the past, and unintentionally recycled a previous author's sentiments unless duely noted.

89 posted on 11/29/2004 2:50:37 PM PST by infidel29 (America is GREAT because she is GOOD, the moment she ceases to be GOOD, she ceases to be GREAT - B.F)
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To: TBP
Your response is not a response. It is evasive and irrleevant to the point.

It's not the response you want. It is, however, an analogy and speaks directly to the point.

To equate the Triune God of Christianity to allah of Islam, which is what you want to do, is to engage in a philosopher's method of abstraction and indifferentism. You want to leave out the details. The details are what matter most.

If you prefer a philosopher's god of universal characteristics, then please do so.

90 posted on 11/29/2004 2:55:01 PM PST by stripes1776
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To: TBP

That, again is dependent upon which faith you ascribe to. Some world religions (as well as some Christian sects) believe that Heaven is a true and physical place with streets of gold and buildings of silver. Others, as you have pointed out, depict heaven as a state of mind or an ethereal goal to which one should strive. Others still depict it to be whatever one can imagine it to be.


91 posted on 11/29/2004 2:55:15 PM PST by infidel29 (America is GREAT because she is GOOD, the moment she ceases to be GOOD, she ceases to be GREAT - B.F)
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To: corpus
Which sect do you belong, and who is the founder of it?

Ever wonder who, where and when your religion came from?
HERE IS THE HISTORIC RECORD

--------- (according to a Jewish source and double-verified in unbiased historical reference books) ---------


If you are Jewish, your religion was founded by God through Abraham about 4,000 years ago.

If you are Hindu, your religion developed in India around 1500 B.C.

If you claim to be a Druid, your religion may have developed sometime around 900 B.C. in Celtic Europe, but was completely wiped out in about 500 A.D. by the Romans, leaving only Roman writings about it; for the Druids utterly disdained writing.

If you are Shintoist, your religion developed long ago and over an undetermined period of time from the primitive animist religions of Japan.

If you are Buddhist, your religion split from Hinduism, and was founded by Prince Siddhartha Gautama of India, about 500 B.C.

If you are Confuscianist, your religion (really a social philosophy based upon ancient Chinese feudal ritual) was founded on the teachings of K'ung Fu-Tzu in China in about 550 B.C.

If you are a Taoist, your religion (really a naturalistic, philosophic way of life) began with the teachings of Lao Tzu in about 550 B.C.

If you are Roman Catholic, your religion was founded by Jesus Christ in the year 33.

If you are Islamic, your religion was started by Mohammed in the area of what is now Saudi Arabia, about 600 A.D.

If you are Eastern Orthodox, your sect of the Catholic Church broke away from Roman Catholicism around the year 1,000.

If you are Sikh, your religion was founded in the Punjab region of India by Guru Nanak in about 1500.

If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an excommunicated Catholic monk in 1517.

If you are Anglican, your religion was started by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are Presbyterian, your religion was founded when John Knox brought the teachings of John Calvin to Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are Unitarian, your religious group developed in Europe in the 1500s.

If you are a Congregationalist, your religion branched off from Puritanism in the early 1600s in England.

If you are a Baptist, your religion was founded by a man named John Smyth, in Amsterdam in 1607.

If you are a Methodist, your religion was founded by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are Episcopalian, your religion was founded by Samuel Seabury in America in 1789, when he broke from the Anglican church of England.

If you are a Mormon, your religion was founded by a man named Joseph Smith in Palmyra, New York in 1830.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your religion was started by a man named William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Jehova's Witness, your religion was founded by Charles Taze Russell in Pennsylvania in the 1870s.

If you are a Christian Scientist, your religion was founded by Mary Baker Eddy in 1879.

If you are Pentecostal, your religion started in the United States in 1901.

If you belong to any one of the countless other protestant denominations or "non-denominational" Christian churches, your sect probably began in this century or even this decade as an offshoot of one of the more mainstream Protestant denominations.

If you are an agnostic, you profess an uncertainty or skepticism about the existence of God, or any being higher than yourself.

If you are an Atheist, your religion denies the existence of any higher being and was later officially founded by Madalyn Murray O'Hair.
92 posted on 11/29/2004 4:14:20 PM PST by broadsword (When Islam creeps into a human society, oppression, misogyny and terror come hard on its heels.)
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To: broadsword; Scythian

You beat me to the punch, Broadsword. The Holy Bible these "Christians" who leave Christ's one true Church to join a heretical sect or start their own is the other point of contention they refuse to acknowledge. Making themselves "popes" by appointing themselves the highest authority in scriptural interpretation. How they know any scripture can be trusted to be accurate is beyond me because they do not possess the original - at best they have an english translation of which there are thousands of versions of which many contradict each other!

Depending on Scythian's sect, the errors of its founder are easily made evident. Why be under the shackles of the Catholic Church when we can free ourselves to do as we will? (Hmmm... isn't that how Satan tempted Adam and Eve - with the question "why obey when you can be like unto God?")

PS (Scythian) - When (what year) did Christ's Church (the Catholic Church) stop being "Christian"? Specifically, which dogma(s) is/are in error?


93 posted on 11/29/2004 5:38:46 PM PST by corpus
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To: malakhi
Certainly, you are entitled to your opinion.

Well that would be true if we were speaking of preferences of colors, or flavors, I would be entitled to my opinion and you yours. Neither opinion would be right or wrong. However, what if I held the opinion that 2+2=5? Would you do me the discourtesy of calling this a false opinion? Or would you tolerate my error so we could all just get along? Suppose I was your accountant, would I still be entitled to that opinion? Would you be afraid of hurting my feelings?

However, even though I find your theology and scriptural interpretation faulty,

Since you seem put off by my dogmatic statements, (I don't recall interpreting scripture) let's try this philosophically.

Let's start with the law of non contradiction. In the words of Aristotle, "One cannot say of something that it is and that it is not in the same respect and at the same time."

For example:

1) Jesus is God the Son, second person of the Blessed Trinity

or

2) Jesus is not God the Son, he is merely a man, a prophet of Allah.

Both cannot be true. Christians accept the first statement as true, therefore the second statement must be rejected as false. A religion based a false premise would be a false religion.

94 posted on 11/29/2004 7:53:42 PM PST by murphE (fight terrorism in the womb END ABORTION NOW)
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To: murphE

I agree.

And their members are "of their father the devil."


95 posted on 11/29/2004 8:05:22 PM PST by Baraonda (Demographics has consequences.)
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To: murphE

"I'll go you one better, any religion that denies the divinity of Our Lord Jesus, that He is God the Son, the second person of the Blessed Trinity is a false religion. It cannot be of God."

So very true. Theirs is a religion of the devil as their father.


96 posted on 11/29/2004 8:10:54 PM PST by Baraonda (Demographics has consequences.)
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To: murphE
However, what if I held the opinion that 2+2=5? Would you do me the discourtesy of calling this a false opinion?

Assuming a standard algebraic system, this would be a demonstrable error. The difference between a mathematical proposition and a religious proposition is that frequently mathematical propositions can be proven or disproved.

As an aside, it is trivial to define a consistent algebraic system where, for example, 1+1=0. Different axioms, different results.

Or would you tolerate my error so we could all just get along?

I tolerate what I believe to be your religious error because I recognize that religious claims are unfalsifiable. Reason can draw conclusions from axiomatic beliefs, but reason cannot lead you into or out of belief in the axioms themselves.

I don't recall interpreting scripture

You cited specific scripture passages, presumably to support the point you were trying to make.

Christians accept the first statement as true, therefore the second statement must be rejected as false.

And as a Jew I reject your first proposition. However, I recognize that such statements are are inherently unprovable. Reason can tell me that one is true and one is false, but it cannot tell me which one is true.

97 posted on 11/29/2004 8:13:17 PM PST by malakhi
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To: Baraonda
And their members are "of their father the devil."

Just to clarify, you are saying that Jews are children of the devil?

98 posted on 11/29/2004 8:14:18 PM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi

Look up the context yourself and you decide:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


99 posted on 11/29/2004 8:20:17 PM PST by hlmencken3 ("...politics is a religion substitute for liberals and they can't stand the competition")
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To: malakhi
You cited specific scripture passages, presumably to support the point you were trying to make.

Please show me where so I know what you are referring to?

100 posted on 11/29/2004 8:20:55 PM PST by murphE (fight terrorism in the womb END ABORTION NOW)
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