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I don't understand why they would HAVE to join the Orthodox grouping of Churchs just because they lie in the East. By that standard, would it be that there cannot be Orthodox Churchs in the West? I would not agree with that

To touch on your second question first: as long as we are not in communion, all bets are off, but not the cionsequences. If we are to reestablish communion, all the Churches in the West, regardless of their rite would be under the jurisdiction of the Pope.

The first seven Ecumenical Councils established that each Patriarch has exclusive jurisdiction over his Patriarchate; that included the Patriarch of the West, also known as the Bishop of Rome.

Since the Catholic Church recognizes all seven Ecumenical Councils of the (undivided) Church, exerting its jurisdiction and, worse, actively enticing churches traditionally under a different patriarchate to break with Constantinople and join Rome is seen as highly counterproductive when it comes to overtures of reconcilliation from the very side that is engaged in enticing Eastern churches to break with Constantinople.

The Uniate churches are naturally perceived as offenders in the East, as for example any Catholic Church would be if it decided to join Constantinople or the Anglican community for example. Thus, as long as these hybrids exist, they will be a stumbling block. Since they represent only 2% of the Catholic faithful, the damage their existance presents to reconcilliation is disporpotionate -- but glaringly obvious.

Try being realistic and skim some of the ideal we all tend to make thicker on this forum. Let's face it: the dominant Catholic Rite is Latin and will undoubtedly stay so. It is unlikely, even impossible, to imagine that some Ruthenian Uniate or a Maronite bishop will become the next Pope.

At the time when Europe is becoming not just secular but ourtight atheist, and America is dominated by fundamentalist Evangelicals whose message sounds like anything else but what our Lord Jesus Christ preached, and where Later Day Saints polytheistic quasi-Christianity is gaining along with New Age and other "religions" of the world, while Protestants continue to atomize into tens of thousands of individual "churches" completely void of Apostolic authoirty, valid clergy or sacraments -- the Catholics can count on none other than Orthodoxy. Are Uniates worth jeopardizing possible reconciliation?

You may say: we don't need the Orthodox, nor do we wish to cozy to them. To which we say: fine! We are not the ones asking for reconcilliation. To us numbers mean nothing ("narrow is the path and few shall find it."). But the reality is somewhat discouraging: church attendence has dropped to mere 25%, only 1/3 of all Catholics believes in the Real Presence, churches are closing and priestly ranks are drying up.

Maybe these are all the wrong reasons why anyone should seek reconcilliation and perhaps it is even humiliating, but on the other hand maybe the time has never been better and the opportunity may be God's blessing.

If we are to reestablish communion, all the Churches in the West, regardless of their rite would be under the jurisdiction of the Pope

Would that mean that if we are to re-establish communion, all GReek, Russian etc. Churchs in America, England etc. would be under the jurisdiction of the Pope? I don't think that would be correct. As a matter of fact, I think it would be silly to say the least. By that extension, every land outside Greece, Romania, South Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Russia, Syria and Egypt would be under the Pope's jurisdiction and no Orthodox Churchs would be allowed -- a very very wrong thing

any Catholic Church would be if it decided to join Constantinople or the Anglican community for example.

The thing is that the Catholic Church isnt' made of separate Churchs in the same way as the Orthodox communion, we are made of separate traditions, but not separate communites/Churchs. SO, the question of a Catholic Church leaving is not really possible -- it would be the entire Catholic Church or a group of persons leaving

That does show the differences in thinking as well as in interpretation of words used.

Let's face it: the dominant Catholic Rite is Latin and will undoubtedly stay so. It is unlikely, even impossible, to imagine that some Ruthenian Uniate or a Maronite bishop will become the next Pope.

The dominant rite IS Latin, true, but I don't think it is impossible for a Ruthenian Catholic (note, as NYer says we do not use the term Uniate any more) or Maronnite bishop to be the next Pope.

At the time when Europe is becoming not just secular but ourtight atheist, and America is dominated by fundamentalist Evangelicals whose message sounds like anything else but what our Lord Jesus Christ preached, and where Later Day Saints polytheistic quasi-Christianity is gaining along with New Age and other "religions" of the world, while Protestants continue to atomize into tens of thousands of individual "churches" completely void of Apostolic authoirty, valid clergy or sacraments -- the Catholics can count on none other than Orthodoxy. Are Uniates worth jeopardizing possible reconciliation?

Ah, there you go again kosta, getting my heckles up.

The Church IS in crisis, as we were in during the Protestant heresy or during the attack by the barbarian tribes, but the Church survives and flourishes. Just as the Orthodox Churchs survived underIslamic rule.

We would be a lot stronger if there was East-West unity, but if not, we would survive and flourish. If there was the unity, we could meet God's mission of spreading His word to the world.

You may say: we don't need the Orthodox, nor do we wish to cozy to them.

Actually, I've never said that -- every Catholic on this forum is extremely eager for a reconciliation, but, with some exceptions, all we get is bad-mouthing, which raises our heckles and make us want to slam the door we opened.

Thankfully there ARE a few Orthodox who do remind us that the Orthodox Churchs are as equally willing to reach out to the West.

But the reality is somewhat discouraging: church attendence has dropped to mere 25%,

Perhaps in Western Europe -- though in those very same nations the attendence in even Orthodox churchs (and Protestant churchs) are dropping as well. Why? It seems that the more of the welfare state we get, the less people want God. Why then is the Church so strong in other places like in Poland, in the Czech Republic, in Slovakia, in India, in Syria, in Lebanon, in the Phillipines and yes, still in S. America.

You state We are not the ones asking for reconcilliation. To us numbers mean nothing

But that's NOT the point -- the Catholic Church doesn't just want to make up numbers -- we are already 1.2 billion+ strong -- more than half the number of Christians in the world are Catholic. We seek unity because we recognize you as being true Christians, as being brethern separated by misunderstanding, by egos and by issues that CAN be resolved. We reach out to the Protestant Churchs that we feel we can be in communion with. We don't reach out to the Mormons or Jehovahs Witnesses or Scientologists or Isalam as they are separate religions. We seek communion not just to make up numbers but to make Christ's Church whole once more. We have much we can learn from you.