You may claim you are on the team but you contribute nothing. You run around on the sideline screaming but nobody cares what you have to say. You are just a waterboy. Get lost.
Posted on 11/15/2004 2:31:05 PM PST by nonsumdignus
Obviously, #80 was directed only to GG II. Ninenot and Girlshortstop were pinged only to draw their attention.
Bad keyboard day. I think I now have the pings straight.
When ordained, Rembert Weakland, Joseph Bernardin, Teilhard de Chardins, Leo Suenens, Annibale Bugnini and a lot of their infamous ilk were saying only the Tridentine Mass. It insulated none of them. Rumor has it that plain old-fashioned (and baroque old-fashioned) sin pre-existed the Novus Ordo Mass. You will have to do better. Next argument?
Ok. It's my fault. I guess it's my fault that at least 1/3 of the bishops are queer and the Pope keeps turning them into cardinals.
Even so, the fact's are plain to see that without the Holy Sacrifice, there is no defense at all against these crooks.
If the Roman Catholic Church offends each of you so, go find another. We didn't draft either of you. You are free agents with free will.
GGII: It IS your fault that you specialize in whining. Whatever would you do if (when) real persecution of the sort that characterized the first three centuries of the Church starts up again.
Stubborn: Just because Luther behaved toward Church authority very much as Marcel did in our time, does not make either of them pious, just the same old standard issue chronic malcontents that have plagued Christianity throughout its history. In Luther's case, though, it seems not to have been a matter merely of taste and id. Even though he reached erroneous conclusions, Luther, at least, made the intellectual effort. As to Lucifer, he is known for acting on his motto "non serviam." Just like Marcel.
As far as Lucifer goes, he mocked God by believing he didn't need God anymore - same as the NO Liturgy when compared to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The results of the NO Liturgy are everywhere, as will be God's Justice, even though most blind themselves to that fact.
Only an apostate stooge would consider opposition to homosexual bishops and priests raping children as 'whining'.
You may claim you are on the team but you contribute nothing. You run around on the sideline screaming but nobody cares what you have to say. You are just a waterboy. Get lost.
The Mass is the only thing that keeps me Catholic. I find the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility suspect, I'm not sure I believe that Mary was conceived without Sin, I'm not sure I believe in Purgatory, and I have a sneeking suspicion that the Holy Spirit proceeds directly and only from the Father. But even though I can't summon an attachment to these Doctrines, I don't presume to say for sure that I know them to be false.
No matter what Church I belonged to, I'm sure I would question 'things', that's the nature of this particular human beast. So, my lack of full acceptance of those things doesn't bother me that much. I chalk it up to perhaps not fully understanding. And links won't help (they establish nothing definitively), it's a matter of Faith, and probably my lack of it.
But the Mass is totally different. When I kneel at the Altar Rail to receive Holy Communion, there's not a doubt in my mind that I'm receiving the Body and the Blood of my Savior. Should the Mass be tampered with to the point of not recognizing it anymore, what's a ewe to do?
If the Holy Roman Catholic Church announces the Sacrifice to be allegory, do I accept that? Do I still partake? These questions are not farfetched, seeing the various Diocese in their full regalia.
The selection of the next Pope will be to the HRCC what the Bush/Kerry election was to the Country. Corsi's rail isn't easily dismissed, IMO.
To say that deconstruction of the Mass can proceed apace without changing the Mass is not only something I don't believe, it's something that I believe must be stopped. Do I have any power to stop it? No! The Pope, the Cardinals and the Bishops have that power, no other temporal beings do. And to the best of my knowledge free will and free association still reign.
But, I do think Schism is a dead-end, because of the refractory nature of it.
So I will remain with Rome, and I guess go down with the Ship, because they're not now going to be able to demand rigor of National congregations who are addicted to ease and still more ease. I don't have any confidence that they will ask us to take the Narrow Path. That won't sell to the audience they've been cultivating. As Thoreau said, after the first blush of sin, it's all ease from that point on. After all, 'The evil that men do (really does) live after them.'
I agree, Schism is a dead-end. Conflicts do remain however. Conflicts between what is obviously the new "Lex orandi" that arose as part of, and is inseparable from the new liturgy.
Perhaps if the new Lex orandi was not so drastic of a departure in the contradicting direction, or if the new Lex orandi was more strict or something - or even if it bore fruit - but alas, if we are to do as Our Lord said, and judge good from evil using the fruits as our guide, then there is only one indisputable conclusion, namely, It Is The Mass That Matters - and heres a few minor thoughts as to why......
The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the only thing that stood as an insurmountable barrier to the forces of hell. So impenetrable was the Mass that no one outside the Church could ever hope to destroy it - even though that always was the enemy's main objective - "destroy the Mass and you'll destroy the Church."
Well, it took some time, but the devil finally penetrated the hierarchy. Those who deny this blind themselves. Once he got in, like the professional saboteur that he is, he went directly for the juggler from within the Church, as its the only hope he had of destroying the Church.
I don't think anyone will argue that when the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was celebrated, that scandal, corruption and sin was non-existant because it wasn't. Those evil things will always be with us - and the Holy Sacrifice will always be our refuge and shield. But when the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was celebrated, people everywhere at least knew what a scandal was, they knew what sin was - and they knew to avoid it - not embrace it.
The Holy Sacrifice will return......when? who knows, hopefully soon, but in the mean time, all we can do is open our eyes and see the rot for what it is - and avoid it, no matter who tries to tell us that it really isn't rot.
Huge, immeasurable bump!
Marcel thought he dfid not need God's Church anymore. His slaves agree with him. No loss.
There are schjismatics with the guts to concede that they are outside the Church and there are schismatics who simply adhere to the schism all the while pretending otherwise. There are also schismatics who attend the authorized Masses (Tridentine) allowed by legitimate Church authority, while hiding in the shadows their schismatic reality, acting strategically as did the Modernists from the death of Pope St. Pius X (who certainly would not be amused by the schuismatic misappropriation of his name) and accession of Benedict XV to their temporary apparent triumph in the 1960s. My Savior's promises are true. If the promises of yours are not, then you should recheck your premises.
You and those like you are not in charge of Christ's Church and thank God you will not be.
What I do not and will not contribute to are the remarkably pretentious assumptions of the schismatics.
Obviously, from the content of your posts, you have little of substance to say and are disarmed for rational argument.
Have your tastes been offended???? Too bad! Get over it. I don't particularly care whether you listen so long as I am right and I am.
If you have a problem with Bishop Sheridan, you are occupying territory not Catholic.
Ubi Petrus, Ibi Ecclesia.
Non Serviam is Non Serviam whether from Lucifer or from Marcel.
The difference was that Lucifer is a rebellious angel and that Marcel was a rebellious priest and bishop. Lucifer could not consecrate priests in service to a rebellion against God's Church. Marcel could and did.
Why should I sympathize with those who pollute the minds of innocent children and lead people away from the Church?
Please tell me, waterboy.
Marcel has alot in common with all the Popes and Bishops prior to V2. Conversely, all the popes and Bishops prior to V2 have little or nothing in common with V2 - so I agree with you that the post V2 Church is only an outline of the pre V2 Church.
"Tolle Missam, tolle Ecclasiam! - Destroy the Mass, and you destroy the Church!" - Martin Luther
Don't blame Marcel, he was defending the Mass - who else would have?
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