“Well there is a whole lot of history not to like –“
Yeah, but you have to realize that by far the bulk of the historical writings on the Catholic Church are no more accurate or unbiased than a Helen Thomas editorial on Ronald Reagan.
“On the other hand most of the places I went would not darken the door of each other all believed that each other were deceived in little or big ways all believed that they had the true light and path”
All churches are made up of humans, and so all are wrong about or ignorant of some things. That’s inevitable. However, having been a protestant and being now a Catholic, my view is that the protestant tradition is impoverished by comparison to the incredible intellectual, theological, and spiritual wealth of the Catholic Church. That doesn’t make me despise protestants, though. I just wish there were some way to share the wealth with them.
“But further I will say that in most every church there are people that walk with god and people who don't”
Grass is green, the sky is blue, water is wet…
“Denominations are predatory in nature, they are limited in nature, they codify traditions and teaching of mere men and make them equal with and in many cased they give more credence to men’s words than God’s.”
Sometimes. Sometimes things are dismissed as “teaching of mere men” that are actually guidance from the Holy Spirit.
“They are physical empires”
With regard to the Catholic Church, what we call the “visible church” has been of inestimable spiritual value.
“Christ said he was building a spiritual kingdom”
The goal is to get as many souls as possible into heaven. That means doing things in the earthly realm. If religious architecture and art aids in the saving of souls (which, historically, it has), then I have no quarrel with it.
“the pastor or preacher puts himself out as Gods representative and rather than leading and guiding you into a more personal relationship with God where you can learn to hear from him and be taught of him what they want is a business you show up pay your tithe get a sermon that can be anything from politics to muses about leaves on trees”
I considered those things when I decided to become a Catholic. Not every Catholic priest gives a suitable homily, of course, but I’ve never been ragged on to tithe or contribute to anything.
“The point is that all of that is much the same place to place”
Not entirely. I’m sure many people here could point you to places that are nothing like that.
“the ministry is still largely self serving and equally bount by doctrines and traditions”
Doctrines and traditions are, per se, good things…providing that they’re in line with the teachings of Our Lord.
“Anyway I will flat out say the church veered off the road 1800 years ago.”
I think you’re mistaken.
“if you feel everything is swimming and AOK”
Who in the world thinks that today? The only way that things are okay is that God is in His Heaven and His Plan is ticking along.
“People are hungry they are seeking.”
That’s because the left has hoodwinked them away from Christianity without giving them anything to replace it. Not that there is anything to replace it, of course.
“tells me that we should look at the former house the early church to see what was there and it tells me that God is going to take a huge wrecking ball to all the denominations”
The place where you get off the track there is that you don’t accept that the Catholic Church *is* the early church, right back to Our Lord’s words, “On this rock I will build my church.”
With the claims of the Catholic Church you are talking about resting your soul for all of eternity on what you have been told. -- It would seem that there should be some serious investigative work done to on a fist hand basis see if these things be so.
You mentioned a sucession.
There is only one historian for the first three centuries of church history can you name that man?
If their theory is true, then the sucession of Peter would have to be the single most important issue in Church history. The establishment of that pedigree line to the first Pope would be listed in an official history just as the geneology of Christ is listed in two Gospels.
If that pedigree is not listed in the only offical history church history -- a history I might add that was paid for by the Roman Catholic Church -- then either it could not be found to be documented becasue no such pedigree existed -- or if it could not be found due to lost documents at least a histoical note would have been made of their existance and subsequent loss in that treatise. In reality the entire legacy of Rome and the Pope lies in that one book.
If you are serious about your catholisism you will find the book and read the first four sections to find your answer. Its completely your own choice: Men's words or documentation.
In the meantime I want to draw your attention to Clement of Rome one of the all important links in that chain of sucession -- you have been told the Pope is infallible this is a core doctrine it is not optional he either is or isn't and if he is not like with liberals and Kerry the house of cards goes tumbling down and we can not trust other biiger and more far reaching claims they make.
Clement of Rome is claimed to be in that line of sucession yet in his first letter to the Corinthians written in 95 -96 ad letter Clement makes no mention of his office nor his authority. His greeting to the corinthians is as a co-equal -- that in itself should send you strong warning signals
THE Church of God which sojourns at Rome, to the Church of God sojourning at Corinth, to them that are called and sanctified by the will of God, through our Lord Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied.
Secondly Clement confesses to a church that has been in Crisis its elders were tossed out by younger members that he has been tardy in responding
Owing, dear brethren, to the sudden and successive calamitous events which have happened to ourselves (At the church of rome), we feel that we have been somewhat tardy in turning our attention to the points respecting which you consulted us;
In this letter Clement clearly misquotes verses
. For it is written, "The kind-hearted shall inhabit the land, and the guiltless shall be left upon it, but transgressors shall be destroyed from off the face of it."
) And again it saith, "They loved Him with their mouth, and lied to Him with their tongue; but their heart was not right with Him, neither were they faithful in His covenant
He quotes from sources the Catholic Church has never recognized as scripture example: (4) adding, moreover, this gracious declaration Repent O house of Israel, of your iniquity.(5) Say to the children of My people, (Clement quoted this from the Apocrypha of Ezekiel) Though your sins reach from earth to heaven, I and though they be redder(6) than scarlet, and blacker than sackcloth, yet if ye turn to Me with your whole heart, and say, Father ! I will listen to you, as to a holy(7) people.
This is a quote from another book that the roman catholic church never recognized its from the book of enoch -- The sun and moon, with the companies of the stars, roll on in harmony according to His command, within their prescribed limits, and without any deviation. The fruitful earth, according to His will, brings forth food in abundance, at the proper seasons, for man and beast and all the living beings upon it, never hesitating, nor changing any of the ordinances which He has fixed. (Book of Enoch)The unsearchable places of abysses, and the indescribable arrangements of the lower world, are restrained by the same laws. The vast unmeasurable sea, gathered together by His working into various basins,(13) never passes beyond the bounds placed around it, but does as He has commanded.
This verse no scholar knows the book chapter or verse he is quoting here.-- And again it saith, "They loved Him with their mouth, and lied to Him with their tongue; but their heart was not right with Him, neither were they faithful in His covenant
now try this: Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the resurrection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, in Arabia and the countries round about. There is a certain bird which is called a phoenix. This is the only one of its kind, and lives five hundred years. And when the time of its dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense, and myrrh, and other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then, when it has acquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of its parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, to the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the altar of the sun, and having done this, hastens back to its former abode. The priests then inspect the registers of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the five hundredth year was completed.
Are thse the words of the holy see? Jumbled up incorrect and patently false on the Pheonix? If John Kerry had told this story of the Pheonix on the campaign trail what would you have posted on FR.
Are you willing to risk all of eternity on traditions and words of men.
The Democrats said that the acres of documents on Bill Clinton were all false they blew off every witness -- if you open up the Catholic online encyclopedia and read about the inquistion the french hugeonoughts the anabaptists and even dozens of Roman Catholic Saints that they freely admit to killing themselves only to make them saints once they were dead and posed no more oposition to them.
I work with a roman catholic who is of the order of templars -- I don't recall the exact name of the order the man went to catholic school and a catholic collage and he can recite the slaughters of protestants and apostates his very order was attacked and murdered in france for financial gain. And the pope recently apologised to the eastern orthodix church for the sins the commited when the catholic church under orders from the pope looted the greek orthodox church in constantinopel and left it to be destroyed my the muslim onslaught. The document trail is all there for you reading.
May God bless you and enlighten your heart.