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The Didache or The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles
Ancient Christian Writings | 10/09/04 | Me

Posted on 11/09/2004 6:57:01 PM PST by Rocketman

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I felt compelled to let everyone see this. We need to seriously consider some of the things we have been taught. Many of the current doctrines the Prosperity Gospel, Touch not Gods annointed, tithing, many aspects of confession and faith teaching are new ideas and doctrines that are less than 50 years old, if we go back in church histoey we can't find them. The Rapture was first espoused in the 1880's in the Irvingite revival in england, the doctrine of eternal security is about 250 years old. The fundamentalist movement and its doctrines are only 500 years old. The Church has been around for almost 2000 years.

When we speak about truth and having a love for the truth we must start asking questions as to where ideas came from who suggested them and why where they given. For example Offering plates were invented by the Roman Catholic Church between the first and second crusades when they had taped out the european nobility for funds and still came up short they turned to the laity that had traditionally been the poor.It created was by design so that the priests and ushers could see what was being offered by who and at the time if a man was considered wealthier than what he was offering they would have a chat in the confessional or perhaps the inquisitor would call on him.

The term New Testament was coined by "Tertullian" in the year 200 it was the name of his new latin translation of the gospels and epistles that he was pushing at the time --unfortunately the name stuck and came to mean something other than "a new translation"

About 150 yeaars later the word New Testament and Old Testament were codified with the creation of the cannon of scripture. Forever dividing Gods word into the Christian part and the Jewish part -- Jesus called it the law and the prophets and all verses that refer to the law and the prophets by Christ and the Apostles are always called scripture.

In the new testament the Apostles make no references to each others writings as scripture instead it is all called the gospel. And this was prophesied as as much by Isaiah preaching Good News to the poor. . . oddly enought when Christ proclaimed his ministry in galilee he opened the gosepl era with reading that very passage in Isaiah.

If you have any questions feel free to email me I will try my best to answer any questions.

1 posted on 11/09/2004 6:57:04 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

good job

2 posted on 11/09/2004 7:01:02 PM PST by DSBull (Liberal logic: the most mutually exclusive words in the universe!)
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To: Rocketman

bump for later consumption

3 posted on 11/09/2004 7:02:31 PM PST by Chani
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To: Rocketman


4 posted on 11/09/2004 7:09:29 PM PST by spyone
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To: Rocketman

Thank-you for posting this. The Didache has been part of Orthodox libraries for nearly two thousand years. Much of what it says about fasting and preparation for reception of the Eucharist are practiced to this day among Orthodox Christians. While it has never been considered canonical, Athanasius, for example, held it to be deutero-canonical and it tells us a lot about very early Christian practice and belief.

5 posted on 11/09/2004 7:10:17 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Nuke the Cube!)
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To: Chani

Thank You.

6 posted on 11/09/2004 7:10:18 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

Printed for later study by a bible thumping born again newly ordained minister. Thank you

7 posted on 11/09/2004 7:17:23 PM PST by in2itagin (Thank you Lord, for saving my soul....)
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To: Kolokotronis
Lord bless you! I graduated from Bible School in 1978 I have spent decades poering over the greek text the Hebrew text and looking at the greek septuagent and syriac text.

Read Eusubius, Joesphus, Philo and other ancient texts. I have read the didache over several times and I find more in it of valuable each time.

It is said that there are references in the Didache from the Shepard of Hermes the Gospel of Thomas and the Gospel of Barnabas. After having been lost for over 1500 years the Didache was discovered in monastery in Constantinople in 1883. Another copy was found in the remains of a Coptic Church monastery in 1923

Probably the only reason that copies of the Didache ware still found in these places is that the Roman Catholic Church had a split with the eastern orthodox church, and long before the crusades Islam had destroyed the Coptic church across the middle east and Northern Africa and was not able to purge these monasteries of such incriminating documents.

To some the words in this document may sound somewhat foreign, but we must take into account their words above the words of our great protestant teachers and leaders of the last 500 years. How can I suggest such a thing because the people who wrote this were a lot closer to Christ and the Apostles than we are this document is estimated to have been written between 23 years after Christ’s death to 50 years after the death of the Apostle John. What I’m getting at is that either way, as this document was circulated in the various churches there was a number of people still living that had personally been taught by the Apostles themselves.

What was common knowledge about the teachings of Christ the Apostles between 50 AD and 150 AD has all been but lost to us as there are very few letters or historical accounts with which to gauge the words of Paul so show us how early church services were conducted what was the early churches doctrines, what did the early church view as the commandments of Christ, in this document we can catch an ever so brief unfiltered glimpse of what these early followers of Christ believed.

I am not saying that this is equal with scripture but I am saying that their words based on the day this was written should hold a lot more weight than the scholars and linguists who have written so much of our doctrine over the last 500 years.

8 posted on 11/09/2004 7:35:51 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

Tithing is merely a 50-year-old doctrine?

9 posted on 11/09/2004 7:53:21 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (The Hubris of the DUmb: "It's our dawn, and the freepers' sunset." ........BWAHAHAHAHA!!!)
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To: Rocketman
Offering plates were invented by the Roman Catholic Church between the first and second crusades

On the contrary, if you look at St. Paul's epistles you'll see that he was taking up a collection back in the first century!

The term New Testament was coined by "Tertullian"

No, it was coined by Jesus. See Luke 22:20.

In the new testament the Apostles make no references to each others writings as scripture

... our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you: As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

10 posted on 11/09/2004 8:12:18 PM PST by gbcdoj ("I acknowledge everyone who is united with the See of Peter" - St. Jerome)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
Tithing as a teaching stemed out of the 1950's tent revivals. Turn of the century fundamentalist preachers and penetcostal preachers were known for being broke and in all bible schools they used to teach trades so the preacher couls support themselves

A familiar phrase was coiuned during the depression "As poor as a church mouse"

Look up DL Moody, Charles finny, John wesley and a hundred others you won't find a tithing message -- The tithing message really came into prominance in churches in the late 1970's and early 80's with Oral roberts sucess with the book seed faith and the tele-evangleists.

Go on the internet search out these things find out for yourself its all out there just a few clicks away.

11 posted on 11/09/2004 8:18:53 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

What about the Mormons? I thought they tithe, and they are older than 50 years?

12 posted on 11/09/2004 8:29:59 PM PST by spyone
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To: Rocketman

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that Christian congregations and leaders have only recently rediscovered tithing, an ancient scriptural law in the times before Christ.

But early Christian church leaders, I believe, taught and practiced tithing.

Augustine said: "Tithes are required as a matter of debt, and he who has been unwilling to give them has been guilty of robbery." (bringing to mind Malachi)

Jerome taught that anyone that fails to tithe "is convicted of defrauding and supplanting God."

Ambrose, a Roman contemporary of Augustine, wrote: "God has reserved the tenth part to himself, and therefore it is not lawful for a man to retain what God has reserved for himself. To you he has given nine parts, for himself he has reserved the tenth part, and if you shall not give to God the tenth part, God will take from you the nine parts."

The Council of Macon established tithing as a requirement in 585 A.D.

13 posted on 11/09/2004 8:40:44 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (The Hubris of the DUmb: "It's our dawn, and the freepers' sunset." ........BWAHAHAHAHA!!!)
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To: gbcdoj
There is a difference between a gleaming metal offering plate passed around institutionalized as part of a church service service -- and we are now told that it is part of our worship worship, and paul taking up a collection for the needs of poor starving christians gifts and offerings are in the new testament and talked about in early christian writings for the first four centuries.

And I am Glad that you brought up luke 22:20 Luke 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Jesus did not day the book was the new covenant tertullian did in 200 AD What did Jesus say this CUP

I spent a lot of time studying this becasue it was contrary to the traditions of men we were all taught. The cup in communion of his blood is the new covenant.

Look now at paul . . .

1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

See Paul makes the same error Jesus did . . .claining the cup is the new testament -- see they didn't have the pastor or teacher you had ( Sorry I am not mocking you) The same teachers I had.

See it gets worse than that

1 Corinthians 10:16-18 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ? For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread. Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Read carefully there are two communions incororpated into holy communion They in turn correspont to two specific things in the law of mosses where it was type and shadow I'll give you a hint it is not the ever popular preactice of covenanting.

Please don't throw bombs we can discuss these things without cursing and dmning each other -- scripture would indicate that Jesus and the father tend to frown on those practices.

14 posted on 11/09/2004 8:43:38 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Choose Ye This Day
Saint Jerome was batised in 365 fourth and fifth century guy. Augustine was later and your coucil of macon was in the 6th century

If you look in the first second and third century tithing did not exist in the christian vanacular.

After the boys from rome took over everything changed.

I'm seaching for a quote about pope gregory as we speak and I'll post it for you to examine and meditate on as to the state of the catholic church in the first few ceturies after assuming control.

15 posted on 11/09/2004 8:57:28 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Choose Ye This Day
Try this . . .

The only truth in this matter is that somewhere back about 1500 years ago in church history a certain minister or a certain group of ministers got tired of selling all and then living hand to mouth for the rest of their lives. So once the ministry became liberated of this undo burden, they then discovered to their chagrin that some of their congregation members were still adhering to the words of Christ, and this would hardly do. The Priest needed to be the holiest, most sanctified member of the church. So the situation required a little more liberation – besides this had a little perk for the Priests. Poor members gave little or no offerings, but people who had means could give more. If you look up “offerings” and “offering plates” in Google you will discover that the ministry for the first four centuries was flat broke. They didn’t even have a poor box. They collected only gifts no tithes, they had no offering plates. In the early and mid fourth century they say the offering were placed on the altar and distributed by the priests to the priests in need and to the poor.

At about that time the Catholic church came out with it’s first money making scheme the tombs and relics of the Apostles and Prophets. In those days Christians would go on these pilgrimages to holy churches and holy sites. If a church was lucky enough to have a good relic they got offerings from Pilgrims. Anyway the author said that the churches greatest cash-making cow of the era was St. Peter’s tomb in Rome it was so successful that they build a trap door in the tomb the pilgrim would come open the door toss in his offering to St. Peter and then yell what he wanted and then slammed the door shut. If we want to really do the prosperity Gospel right we might consider something like this in our churches. This had a whole lot more pop to it than the old bedpans we pass around.

So old Pope Gregory comes along and he complains that the church is filled with the poor and he wants to expand the churches offering horizon. To he start hobnobbing with some royalty. Finds this king that is laden with sin but has lots of money. So he has an artificer make him a cross shaped vial. The Pope then fills this vial with metal filings and sells the vial to this king for around thousands of gold pieces telling the king that in the vial are filings from the chains of St. Peter. Chains must have been a fashion statement for royalty that year. Pope Gregory tells this king that when he wears this vial he is wearing the actually chains of St. Peter and that these chains completely absolve the wearer of all sin. So he could no doubt go and rape and pillage to his hearts content. Since the 1950’s preachers have been selling little vials of holy water and healing oil and cloth healing strips obviously these people are small minded. So after his first deal Pope Gregory orders a second vial and makes a deal with another king. Probably he saw the first kings dress chains and was jealous. In this vial he puts brass metal filings. If he sells so many sets of chains he could have a problem explaining where he got the stuff from. In this case he tells the second king that in his vial are the filings from the keys of the kingdom that Christ gave St, Peter. And that by wearing this little vial he was also absolved of all past and future sins – So he could now kill and loot with impunity. Now of course we know that Christ gave no metal keys to Peter and that whatever was in those vials could not absolve these men of a single sin, but the king and others believed that. And some bishops went crazy about the notion of their Holy Pope filing down Holy artifacts and selling the stuff to the highest bidder.

Pope Gregory incidently was a 5th century and very early 6th kind og Guy he was born 25 years before Saint Jerome

16 posted on 11/09/2004 9:08:34 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

Perhaps a more enlightening discussion was when did the practice of having PAID ministers, priests, etc. begin? Was Christ's original intent to have professional clergy, or a lay ministry?

17 posted on 11/09/2004 9:21:58 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (The Hubris of the DUmb: "It's our dawn, and the freepers' sunset." ........BWAHAHAHAHA!!!)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
This is all part and parcel of the same thing brother. Many things have been turned inside out. Interestingly enough professional preachers are the third hightest paid profession today in the US right after doctors and lawyers.

I beleive the term in the bible for that is a hireling.

I've posted before on that recently

18 posted on 11/09/2004 9:42:33 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Rocketman

Do you know what the position of the Vatican is on the Didache, and what it was pre-Vat II?

19 posted on 11/09/2004 9:58:07 PM PST by dsc (LIBERALS: If we weren't so darned civilized, there'd be a bounty on them.)
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To: dsc

The didache was pre-vatican, pre-pope, early apostollic father, it was written between 50 AD to 150 AD it was pre canno0n of scripture before the Gospels and epistles were published as a book the Didache was used -- in Churches as a guide for new beleivers. It has nothing to do with what the catholic church decided and made up later.

20 posted on 11/09/2004 10:09:39 PM PST by Rocketman
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