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To: Rocketman

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that Christian congregations and leaders have only recently rediscovered tithing, an ancient scriptural law in the times before Christ.

But early Christian church leaders, I believe, taught and practiced tithing.

Augustine said: "Tithes are required as a matter of debt, and he who has been unwilling to give them has been guilty of robbery." (bringing to mind Malachi)

Jerome taught that anyone that fails to tithe "is convicted of defrauding and supplanting God."

Ambrose, a Roman contemporary of Augustine, wrote: "God has reserved the tenth part to himself, and therefore it is not lawful for a man to retain what God has reserved for himself. To you he has given nine parts, for himself he has reserved the tenth part, and if you shall not give to God the tenth part, God will take from you the nine parts."

The Council of Macon established tithing as a requirement in 585 A.D.


13 posted on 11/09/2004 8:40:44 PM PST by Choose Ye This Day (The Hubris of the DUmb: "It's our dawn, and the freepers' sunset." ........BWAHAHAHAHA!!!)
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To: Choose Ye This Day
Saint Jerome was batised in 365 fourth and fifth century guy. Augustine was later and your coucil of macon was in the 6th century

If you look in the first second and third century tithing did not exist in the christian vanacular.

After the boys from rome took over everything changed.

I'm seaching for a quote about pope gregory as we speak and I'll post it for you to examine and meditate on as to the state of the catholic church in the first few ceturies after assuming control.

15 posted on 11/09/2004 8:57:28 PM PST by Rocketman
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To: Choose Ye This Day
Try this . . .

The only truth in this matter is that somewhere back about 1500 years ago in church history a certain minister or a certain group of ministers got tired of selling all and then living hand to mouth for the rest of their lives. So once the ministry became liberated of this undo burden, they then discovered to their chagrin that some of their congregation members were still adhering to the words of Christ, and this would hardly do. The Priest needed to be the holiest, most sanctified member of the church. So the situation required a little more liberation – besides this had a little perk for the Priests. Poor members gave little or no offerings, but people who had means could give more. If you look up “offerings” and “offering plates” in Google you will discover that the ministry for the first four centuries was flat broke. They didn’t even have a poor box. They collected only gifts no tithes, they had no offering plates. In the early and mid fourth century they say the offering were placed on the altar and distributed by the priests to the priests in need and to the poor.

At about that time the Catholic church came out with it’s first money making scheme the tombs and relics of the Apostles and Prophets. In those days Christians would go on these pilgrimages to holy churches and holy sites. If a church was lucky enough to have a good relic they got offerings from Pilgrims. Anyway the author said that the churches greatest cash-making cow of the era was St. Peter’s tomb in Rome it was so successful that they build a trap door in the tomb the pilgrim would come open the door toss in his offering to St. Peter and then yell what he wanted and then slammed the door shut. If we want to really do the prosperity Gospel right we might consider something like this in our churches. This had a whole lot more pop to it than the old bedpans we pass around.

So old Pope Gregory comes along and he complains that the church is filled with the poor and he wants to expand the churches offering horizon. To he start hobnobbing with some royalty. Finds this king that is laden with sin but has lots of money. So he has an artificer make him a cross shaped vial. The Pope then fills this vial with metal filings and sells the vial to this king for around thousands of gold pieces telling the king that in the vial are filings from the chains of St. Peter. Chains must have been a fashion statement for royalty that year. Pope Gregory tells this king that when he wears this vial he is wearing the actually chains of St. Peter and that these chains completely absolve the wearer of all sin. So he could no doubt go and rape and pillage to his hearts content. Since the 1950’s preachers have been selling little vials of holy water and healing oil and cloth healing strips obviously these people are small minded. So after his first deal Pope Gregory orders a second vial and makes a deal with another king. Probably he saw the first kings dress chains and was jealous. In this vial he puts brass metal filings. If he sells so many sets of chains he could have a problem explaining where he got the stuff from. In this case he tells the second king that in his vial are the filings from the keys of the kingdom that Christ gave St, Peter. And that by wearing this little vial he was also absolved of all past and future sins – So he could now kill and loot with impunity. Now of course we know that Christ gave no metal keys to Peter and that whatever was in those vials could not absolve these men of a single sin, but the king and others believed that. And some bishops went crazy about the notion of their Holy Pope filing down Holy artifacts and selling the stuff to the highest bidder.

Pope Gregory incidently was a 5th century and very early 6th kind og Guy he was born 25 years before Saint Jerome

16 posted on 11/09/2004 9:08:34 PM PST by Rocketman
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