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To: gracebeliever
You state that "God creates Faith within a spiritually dead Man." It may seem to be splitting hairs, but Romans 10:17 teaches that "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God." While God is the author of His Book through God the Holy Spirit, it seems one must first hear and believe, i.e., have faith, before the work of regeneration occurs.

No, you're just presuming that Unregenerate people will respond to the Gospel without prior Regeneration. It is more proper to understand that the ordinary means that God uses to Regenerate and create Faith in His Elect is via the preaching of the Gospel -- the Spirit uses the preaching of the Gospel the breathe spiritual life and Faith into those, the Elect, to whom He is sent.

It is absolutely Anti-Biblical to suggest that Unregenerate people "choose God" of their own volition without prior monergistic Regeneration by God alone. The Scriptures adamantly teach that those who are Spiritually Dead DON'T EVER DO THAT.

Once the nature of Spiritual Death is correctly understood according to the teachings of Scripture, it becomes clearly evident that it is Biblically-impermissible to teach that Unregenerate men "respond to" and "choose God" prior to God's own monergistic Regeneration of their dead spirits.

And God regenerates whomsoever He will, according to His own Election.

Best, OP

73 posted on 10/15/2004 2:05:57 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

I am not presuming but am strictly going by what God tells us in His Word. And that is that He offers salvation freely to all who respond to the Word in faith. When God sees a person has heard the Word and by faith believes that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day, 1Cor. 15:1-4, God the Holy Spirit brings that person into the Body of Christ. Salvation has many aspects, one of which is regeneration, and that is how we get into the Body of Christ. But the hearing comes first before the responding then the regenerating.

Thanks for the little study on human depravity. I have no problem with how destitute man is and how the unregenerate are spiritually dead. However, what a dead person needs is life. And that life is in the Son of God. The Holy Spirit of God regenerates man through the Word and quickens him. When a man is quickened, which is a different word than regenerated but has much the same meaning, he is placed by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is God's elect. With the exception of Christ, there is no instance in the Bible where an individual is referred to as the elect. We are only the elect because of being in the Body of Christ and election is for the purpose of God. Israel is also referred to as God's elect and so are the elect angels.

Actually it is Biblically correct to teach that man is free to choose to accept the Word, and thus be saved, or to reject the Word and thus be doomed. God's grace is freely given, as stated in Romans and Ephesians, as well as many other places, and freely received. So, either God is deceiving us by telling us that anyone and everyone without distinction can be saved by His grace, or He is telling us the truth. I choose to believe the latter rather than what man has done by twisting God's Word to suit a particular dogma.


79 posted on 10/16/2004 12:48:39 PM PDT by gracebeliever
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Acts 10:1-2
1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,
2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
3 He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
4 And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

Acts 10:34-35
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Acts 10:44-45
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Is a person who is spiritually dead unable to receive communications from God? The scripture teaches that God reaches out to unbelievers who are spiritually dead. Cornelius sought God without having the indwelt Holy Spirit. God responded to the spiritually dead Cornelius with a vision.

We have a relationship with the Creator of the universe. A spiritually dead person is able to receive communications from God, which will persuade them to pursue knowledge of God, before they are regenerate. Salvation and good works only come after regeneration. Peter clarifies these principles in Acts chapter 10.

God speaks to the unregenerate through the creation that surrounds them. He also uses circumstances in our lives to draw us to the truth. His sovereignty resides in the fact that He draws us and that we are not drawn naturally. It is also true that when a person crosses a line, as did pre-flood civilization, Pharaoh and those of Sodom, He stops His persuading. He went to great lengths in all these cases at persuading them towards belief in Him. Otherwise His character of "longsuffering" would be false. You guys are limiting His longsuffering to only special cases, namely those who are pre-chosen.

154 posted on 10/19/2004 10:52:35 AM PDT by bondserv (Alignment is critical! †)
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