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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

I am not presuming but am strictly going by what God tells us in His Word. And that is that He offers salvation freely to all who respond to the Word in faith. When God sees a person has heard the Word and by faith believes that Jesus died for their sins, was buried and rose again the third day, 1Cor. 15:1-4, God the Holy Spirit brings that person into the Body of Christ. Salvation has many aspects, one of which is regeneration, and that is how we get into the Body of Christ. But the hearing comes first before the responding then the regenerating.

Thanks for the little study on human depravity. I have no problem with how destitute man is and how the unregenerate are spiritually dead. However, what a dead person needs is life. And that life is in the Son of God. The Holy Spirit of God regenerates man through the Word and quickens him. When a man is quickened, which is a different word than regenerated but has much the same meaning, he is placed by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is God's elect. With the exception of Christ, there is no instance in the Bible where an individual is referred to as the elect. We are only the elect because of being in the Body of Christ and election is for the purpose of God. Israel is also referred to as God's elect and so are the elect angels.

Actually it is Biblically correct to teach that man is free to choose to accept the Word, and thus be saved, or to reject the Word and thus be doomed. God's grace is freely given, as stated in Romans and Ephesians, as well as many other places, and freely received. So, either God is deceiving us by telling us that anyone and everyone without distinction can be saved by His grace, or He is telling us the truth. I choose to believe the latter rather than what man has done by twisting God's Word to suit a particular dogma.


79 posted on 10/16/2004 12:48:39 PM PDT by gracebeliever
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To: gracebeliever; Dr. Eckleburg; Calvinist_Dark_Lord; P-Marlowe
I am not presuming but am strictly going by what God tells us in His Word.

No, you aren't.

In fact, the denial of pre-existing Personal Biases is the very height of Spiritual Pride.

Are you actually willing to believe what the Bible Teaches?

I DOUBT IT. I THINK THAT YOU DO NOT WANT TO BELIEVE WHAT THE BIBLE TEACHES.

And that is that He offers salvation freely to all who respond to the Word in faith.

That is utterly, completely, and totally BESIDE THE POINT.

I do not, in any way, dispute that Man is totally Free to respond to the Offer of Salvation. But "Freedom" ain't even the issue -- the issue is, what an Unregenerate Man will do, not what he is "free" to do.

What I affirm, according to the adamant teachings of Scripture (to which you have NOT responded in any way whatsoever, but only propagated your own Personal Biases)... is that, according to the adamant Teachings of Scripture, 100% and without any exception WHATSOEVER in any case:

I have posted thse Scriptues before. You have not responded to ANY of them.

These are the Facts, "gracebeliever": if you ever admit that Man really is every bit as Spiritually Dead as the Bible teaches, then you must admit that God alone is, acting solely on His Own prerogative, totally in charge of Choosing whom He will Regenerate. And you don't WANT to adnit this Biblical Teaching. Your PERSONAL BIASES are against it.

In short -- you MUST deny every Scripture which I have posted above, proving beyond doubt that Unregenerate Men DO NOT, EVER "Choose God" without Prior Regeneration... in service of your own false Humanistic Ideology that Unregenerate Men, acting of their own volition, do "Choose God" without Prior Regeneration.

Man's "Freedom" ain't the issue. You can give a Fallen, Unregenerate Man all the "Freedom" you want, and he will still reject God -- until the Holy Spirit regenerates his soul, without asking his "permission" or "consent" (for according to the Bible, an UnRegenerate Man will always resist the Holy Spirit, if his Free Will is consulted) by the purely-monergistic action of God alone: "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"


The fact is, "Gracebeliever", you Despise and Hate the Bible itself.

For the Bible teaches that Unregenerate Men WILL NEVER "Choose God" while they are still yet Spiritually Dead, without the prior Regeneration of the Holy Spirit. The Bible teaches so ADAMANTLY, according to an AVALANCHE of Scripture which I have provided above -- to which you HAVE NOT responded.

You don't PERSONALLY LIKE this teaching. It OFFENDS your BIASES. You want to teach something DIFFERENT from what the Bible teaches. You want to Teach that Unregenerate Men WILL "Choose God" while they are still yet Spiritually Dead, without the prior Regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

And because the Bible contradicts you, YOU HATE AND DESPISE THE BIBLE ITSELF.


At this point, perhaps I hurt your feelings.

Deal with it.

"Cursed be this 'Love', and cursed be this 'Unity' -- for which the Word of God is put to the stake!!" ~~ Saint Martin Luther

82 posted on 10/17/2004 5:23:15 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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