Posted on 09/28/2004 2:11:32 PM PDT by tridentine
CHURCH OF ST. ANN
110 E. 12th St. (betw. 3rd & 4th Aves.) 212-477-2030
Vatican II who? If you ever grooved along to "Kumbaya," we forgive you. If you ever bopped around during Guitar Mass (two words that should have never been joined in any sort of holy setting), we also forgive you. We didn't know any better.
Having come of age after Vatican II, we didn't know what we were missing until we got older: the gorgeous lace mantillas, novenas, St. Christopher medals. All, things they took away. After Vatican II, see, wise Church leaders decided that congregations should hear mass in their own language, and suddenly, ladies no longer wore veils in church, everybody stopped going to Confession and, most importantly, they got rid of the Latin Mass. That's when all hell broke loose.
Well, not exactly, but that decision did destroy a lot of the beauty and mystery of the ritual. Luckily, in recent years, there has been a reversal that allows for traditional Latin Masses to be revived, if enough parishioners want it, and we've finally been able to experience Catholicism the way it was meant to be. Every Saturday at 2 p.m., you too can join in this stately, dignified liturgy at Church of St. Ann.
Keep a lookout for us. We're the ones wearing an old, tattered and much-too-small First Communion veil, trying to remember how to say a rosary.
(Excerpt) Read more at nypress.com ...
Is this the church that was supposed to be closed?
Pingus, -a, -um.
The Pope desires a wide and generous application of the old liturgy and that should be done but there is no need to attack the new liturgy.
There were many abuses in the old liturgy but those abuses did not mean the old liturgy wasn't right for the time.
For what it is worth, I was bornacatholic in the old liturgy and I still like it. But, I think the new liturgy in the vernacular makes more sense - that assumes the liturgy is performed as intended and every priest promises to do just that when he is ordained.
I am going to post a link to Trent and what TRent had to address re the old liturgy. There were endless abuses, superstitions, simony etc but that didn't mean the liturgy caused the abuses. And, it certainly didn't mean the old liturgy would prevent abuses. People, including priests and Bishops can be willful and sinful as anyone else - in the time of the Apostles, in the time of Trent, in the time right now
You're comparing oranges and apples. During the time of Trent, the problem being addressed wasn't just the corruption, but the schism of Protestantism. Now, we have modernism, which is "the sum of heresies," in the Church. A large part of the problem is the liturgy. It is valid, but it is spiritually-poor, compared to the traditional liturgies.
It was meant to be slightly tongue in cheek. It is funy, and besides, the author said "Well, not really..."
This is exactly what the 40, 30 and 20 year olds think. Give us a break. We were not handed on what our parents were given and very nearly lost it. We have a little bit of bitterness that comes out every now and then, but this was humor.
What great care is to be taken, that the sacred and holy sacrifice of the mass be celebrated with all religious service and [Page 160] veneration, each one may easily imagine, who considers, that, in holy writ, he is called accursed, who doth the work of God negligently; and if we must needs confess, that no other work can be performed by the faithful so holy and divine as this tremendous mystery itself, wherein that life-giving victim, by which we were reconciled to the Father, is daily immolated on the altar by priests, it is also sufficiently clear, that all industry and diligence is to be applied to this end, that it be performed with the greatest possible inward cleanness and purity of heart, and outward show of devotion and piety. Whereas, therefore, either through the wickedness of the times, or through the carelessness and Corruption of men, many things seem already to have crept in, which are alien from the dignity of so great a sacrifice; to the end that the honour and cult due thereunto may, for the glory of God and the edification of the faithful people, be restored; the holy Synod decrees, that the ordinary bishops of places shall take diligent care, and be bound to prohibit and abolish all those things which either covetousness, which is a serving of idols, or irreverence, which can hardly be separated from impiety; or superstition, which is a false imitation of true piety, may have introduced. And that many things may be comprised in a few words: first, as relates to covetousness:--they shall wholly prohibit all manner of conditions and bargains for recompenses, and whatsoever is given for the celebration of new masses; as also those importunate and illiberal demands, rather than requests, for alms, and other things of the like sort, which are but little removed from a simonical taint, or at all events, from filthy lucre.
In the next place, that irreverence may be avoided, each, in his own diocese, shall forbid that any wandering or unknown priest be allowed to celebrate mass. Furthermore, they shall not allow any one who is publicly and notoriously stained with crime, either to minister at the holy altar, or to assist at the sacred services; nor shall they suffer the holy sacrifice to be celebrated, either by any Seculars or Regulars whatsoever, in [Page 161] private houses; or, at all, out of the church, and those oratories which are dedicated solely to divine worship, and which are to be designated and visited by the said Ordinaries; and not then, unless those who are present shall have first shown, by their decently composed outward appearance, that they are there not in body only, but also in mind and devout affection of heart. They shall also banish from churches all those kinds of music, in which, whether by the organ, or in the singing, there is mixed up any thing lascivious or impure; as also all secular actions; vain and therefore profane conversations, all walking about, noise, and clamour, that so the house of God may be seen to be, and may be called, truly a house of prayer.
Lastly, that no room may be left for superstition; they shall by ordinance, and under given penalties, provide, that priests do not celebrate at other than due hours; nor employ other rites, or other ceremonies and prayers, in the celebration of masses, besides those which have been approved of by the Church, and have been received by a frequent and praiseworthy usage. They shall wholly banish from the Church the observance of a fixed number of certain masses and of candles, as being the invention of superstitious worship, rather than of true religion; and they shall instruct the people, what is, and whence especially is derived, the fruit so precious and heavenly of this most holy sacrifice. They shall also admonish their people to repair frequently to their own parish churches, at least on the Lord's days and the greater festivals. All, therefore, that has been briefly enumerated, is in such wise propounded to all Ordinaries of places, as that, by the power given them by this sacred and holy Synod, and even as delegates of the Apostolic See, they may prohibit, ordain, reform, and establish, not only the things aforesaid, but also whatsoever else shall seem to them to have relation hereunto; and may compel the faithful people inviolably to observe them, by ecclesiastical censures and other penalties, which at their pleasure they may appoint; any privileges, exemptions, appeals, and customs whatsoever, to the contrary notwithstanding.
* It would have been wrong for any Catholic living prior to Trent to cite all these abuses as "fruits" of the old liturgy as many today cite abuses as "fruit" of the new liturgy.
Speaking just for myself, I'd like to see a positive presentation of the old litugy and the Indult leaving out all the false accusations that the new liturgy, or the Council, or the Pope, is responsible for abuses.
Nope. I am comparing apples and apples. There were innumerable abuses, superstitiuons, worldy music that were abuses in the old liturgy
As to nearly losing what had been given to your parents - where does the responsibility for the almost loss lie?
I taught my children the Faith even though my parents sent me to CDD. I did much better than any CDD class did :)
Besides, turmoil in the Catholic Church is nothing new. It is a helpful reminder who is in control. Jesus is. He won't let it fail and it is our responsibility to hand on the Faith to our kids.
Of course, it is also the responsibility of the Priests, Bishops and Pope but I can't control them. I do know the Magisterium cannot teach error and I am secure in the Peace of Christ knowing He is in control
* Try again :)
BTW< I have several old missals. I like both liturgies. I just prefer the litugy be in the vernacular. I think the changes made sense. I think the liturgy needed updating. We don''t live in the 16th century anymore.
I assume by "old liturgy" that you are refering to the pre V2 Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. I won't debate that there were abuses back in the time of Trent, but, whatever the abuses were, at least Trent did something to stop them which basically worked so well that almost 500 years later, such abuses are still overwhelmingly unheard of.
One reason many trads attack the abuses of the NO is because those in authority either encourage the abuses or deny they exist, instead of safeguarding it as they are supposed to. We have too many spineless pip-squeeks in the hierarchy that have done a good job of leading too many folks into these abuses, all the while these folks believe the abuses are a good thing.
Having only been to a very few NO liturgies in my life, all I can say is that it is like night and day when compared to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and I am glad that tridentine posts stuff like this because to me, its a type of encouragement to look forward to instead of the discouragement I see from the NO.
I imagine those abuses to time to eradicate and I imagine many continued despite efforts at correction. Nothing new
Check out www.anti-abomination.com for some infor on what the evil Cardinal Egan has in store for that church. Its a long sad story.
"We don''t live in the 16th century anymore."
We don't live in the 1960s anymore either.
Peace and vegetable rights, dude.
That, of course, is your opinion.
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