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Wayward-looking-to-return-to-the-fold-Cathoilc Stumbles upon Jack Chick...now what?
9/28/04 | NJ Neocon

Posted on 09/28/2004 12:20:25 AM PDT by NJ Neocon

At first it looked like whacked out propaganda - but the best lies always have truth to them.

I need help sorting the truth from un-truth.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Ecumenism; Evangelical Christian; History; Mainline Protestant; Ministry/Outreach; Orthodox Christian; Other Christian; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: jackchick
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At first it looked like whacked out propaganda - but the best lies always have truth to them.

I need help sorting the truth from un-truth.

Went from devout Catholic12 years ago, to agnostic, to semi-agnostic Methodist.

I have children now and felt a keen desire to get back to Church and to God and felt a pull towards Catholicism again and my daughter is in Catholic school now as a result of my desire to give her the upbringing I had.

But the more I become re-immersed in the Church, the more I begin to question things I took for granted as truths my whole Catholic life – BUT which I have not thought of since my separation from the Church 12 years ago, and now think of as the come up, like each day when I see the trappings of Catholicism picking my daughter up from school.

I used to get incensed at anti-Catholic screeds at Lucianne.com and here at Freep during my brief time here. I actually felt a great deal of hope and reassurance when I came across a Roman Catholic/Orthodox Catholic discussion this week (reassurance in my Catholic past and decision to try and return) but always, there were doubts.

Then I ran, quite by accident (ha ha…a sign maybe?) Upon the works of Jack Chick.

It seemed innocent enough – reading a post from the political blog “Armed & Dangerous” (http://www.ibiblio.org/esrblog/) on the dangers of “lowest common denominator/Fear tactic fundamentalism”. No I don’t know.

Help?

1 posted on 09/28/2004 12:20:25 AM PDT by NJ Neocon
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To: NJ Neocon
Jack Chick?

Nuts. Bonkers. Barking mad.... albeit in a "crazy like a fox", making millions off a schpiel only he can do as well as he does it, kinda way.

There's lots of sound, Biblical reasons to avoid Roman Catholicism.
Jack Chick ain't one of them.

Next question?

2 posted on 09/28/2004 2:10:10 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: NJ Neocon
By the way, I did think that the "Jack Chick does Cthulhu" comic was hilarious. Although, not something which could be re-posted here due to copyright violation (to say nothing of the four-letter words which are considered "bad words" by some, and are deemed offensive on a public forum read by FReeper kiddies as well as adults).
3 posted on 09/28/2004 2:13:49 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Yes, well, I vaguely remember crossing his lunacy's works in the distant past and dismissed them - and admit to now still seeing them as what appeared to be propaganda, but it is late, I am tired and in a particular place vis-a-vis my suseptablity to suggestion and my receptability to reason and argument.

I appreciate your comments. I would love some more so I can take them all in an chew on them for a while.

What "sound, Biblical reasons" do you have to avoid RC and does that count for Orthodoxy Catholicism and Anglican Catholicism as well?
4 posted on 09/28/2004 2:21:52 AM PDT by NJ Neocon
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To: NJ Neocon

Accept Jesus (not Mary, or the saints) as your personal Savior. Read the Bible (King James). Go to a Bible-based church. Be happy!


5 posted on 09/28/2004 2:25:07 AM PDT by Lurking2Long
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To: Lurking2Long

Thanks.

I never looked to Mary for my salvation (or the Saints). No Catholic I ever knew did.

However, although I do honestly feel that there is an almost delibertae misunderstanding on this point by some Protestants, I must admit I have some newfound questions about Mary that I never had before.

None of them, though, deal in what I see as the "Myth" of Virgin worship.


6 posted on 09/28/2004 2:31:49 AM PDT by NJ Neocon
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To: NJ Neocon

google his website - hes kind of like the natl enquirer of evangelism....a real nuthook


7 posted on 09/28/2004 3:14:47 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: NJ Neocon
Yes, well, I vaguely remember crossing his lunacy's works in the distant past and dismissed them - and admit to now still seeing them as what appeared to be propaganda, but it is late, I am tired and in a particular place vis-a-vis my suseptablity to suggestion and my receptability to reason and argument. I appreciate your comments. I would love some more so I can take them all in an chew on them for a while.

Chick's most inflammatory anti-Catholic works are based on the testimony of "Alberto Romero" aka "Rivera", a con man with Fraud warrants dating from 1965 and 1969. Personally, I think that's all you need to "chew on", IMHO.

What "sound, Biblical reasons" do you have to avoid RC and does that count for Orthodoxy Catholicism and Anglican Catholicism as well?

Let's start with an obvious one -- Justification before God:

I dunno about the Anglo-Catholics, whose doctrines can run pretty close to Rome's within the broad stream of Anglicanism, but this criticism would not apply to the Eastern Orthodox -- from the joint declarations of the Pan-Orthodox/Lutheran World Federation Joint Commission, it's clear that their position is closer to that of the Lutherans**: that it is the True Faith which Justifies and not the Good Works, and that the Good Works which accompany True Faith unto Justification are "necessary for salvation" in the evidentiary sense (just as James really described, when you read his Epistle) that True Faith will necessarily produce Good Works as its fruit and manifestation, NOT in the additive sense of "Faith + racking up enough Good Works = Justification" mandated upon Roman Catholics by the purportedly "infallible" Council of Trent.

Yet this is the EXACT language which Rome has Accursed, and she hold Trent to be "Infallible".

In doing so, she has set herself against the teachings of the Lutherans, the Orthodox, and most importantly those of the Bible. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.



The point is technical, but of critical importance... and hopefully, I have managed to present the argument less luridly than our favorite "Krusty the Clown" comic theologian. ;-)

Best, OP

8 posted on 09/28/2004 3:41:35 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian

you know OP, I was expecing a "popcorn" moment - but you did that quite nicely actually


9 posted on 09/28/2004 4:28:31 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Revelation 911

Well, I've had a lingering Flu, of late. I'm sure that's to blame.


10 posted on 09/28/2004 4:32:18 AM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
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To: NJ Neocon
Then I ran, quite by accident (ha ha - a sign maybe?) Upon the works of Jack Chick.

Ugh.  That's like accidentally clicking on an internet link and seeing an intense image that gets burned onto your brain, and finding it to be quite a job undoing that 'sight' you beheld.  NJ Neocon, your post implies a skepticism about your Faith; I am sorry you are having difficulties with Faith, which is a gift from our Merciful God.

If what has happened to you were to happen to me, I would remedy by diving further into Catholic reading.  G.K. Chesterton, Abp. Fulton J. Sheen, Saint Augustine (Confessions is my current read and it's awesome), and The Bible, and check on some Catholic apologetics websites which make very good sense.  It goes without saying, prayer is a must.  I will say a prayer for you.

Pax et bonum.
11 posted on 09/28/2004 5:12:34 AM PDT by GirlShortstop (« O sublime humility! That the Lord... should humble Himself like this... »)
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To: NJ Neocon
Truth and untruth? I would suggest trying Catholic Answers first. They have a lot of good real Catholic pages that correctly explain things in simple language. Pick the thing you think is the biggest stumbling block to your return to the Church.

http://www.catholic.com

I don't think there is such a thing as instant salvation, I don't think Christ intended this, look at many of his parables. Things grow over time, you don't just accept a "personal Savior", and "poof!" you are inexorably driven to Heaven.

Jack Chick subscribes to the instantly saved crowd, which I find unbiblical, but, YMMV.

If I can help, it would be better to ping mail me, this forum isn't about proselytizing.
12 posted on 09/28/2004 6:03:58 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: NJ Neocon
King James Bible is missing 7 entire books, so for heavens sakes don't read that one. If you plan to read a Bible, make it fruitful and read the Haydock Bible: http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11050.html

I agree with GirlShortstop. Perhaps http://www.emmerich1.com/Imitation_of_Christ.htm will prove a good addition.

13 posted on 09/28/2004 6:13:49 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: NJ Neocon

Does your local church have a program such as
"Catholics Can Come Home Again"
"Landings"
"Welcome Home, Catholics"

There are many others.

If you can, please participate in one of these programs -- they are great1

I can speak for the "Catholics Can Come Home Again". We have been doing it for two years now and probably presented it to over 50 people. Of those, probably a fourth have come back to the church. Really not bad statistics, even though I would like them to be better.

Sometimes it is a marriage or disollution of a marriage and annulment problems that keep a person away. Find a priest or pastoral associate or deacon who can help you in this area and take one step back to the church!

May God bless your journey.

Freepmail me if you have additional questions here.


14 posted on 09/28/2004 6:21:00 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NJ Neocon

BTW, welcome to FR!


15 posted on 09/28/2004 6:21:32 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NJ Neocon

**I never looked to Mary for my salvation (or the Saints). No Catholic I ever knew did.**

You are totally correct here. Many non-Catholics have misconceptions here. Catholics believe that Christ is the way, the truth and the light!

And Catholics do read the REAL Bible that the non-Catholics got the KJV from.

Another thing -- are you aware that Luther, Calvin and Zwingli accepted the Blessed Virgin Mary?

Do a google for Blessed Virgin Mary -- perpetual virginity and you will find their statements verifying this information.


16 posted on 09/28/2004 6:24:44 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Dominick

**Truth and untruth? I would suggest trying Catholic Answers first.**

Excellent suggestion!


17 posted on 09/28/2004 6:26:00 AM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
our favorite "Krusty the Clown" comic theologian. ;-)

"It's a joke. When you give me that look, it's a joke." - Krusty

18 posted on 09/28/2004 6:30:09 AM PDT by jude24 (sola gratia)
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To: Lurking2Long

Read the Bible.

KJV
NIV
NASB
NKJV
DRV (Douay-Rheims. I got saved reading the DRV.)
All good translations.


Do avoid the TNIV,
The Message
The Living Bible
These 3 are NOT translations, they are publications loosely based on the Bible.





19 posted on 09/28/2004 7:28:42 AM PDT by fishtank
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To: fishtank
Read the Bible.

Not to start a war here, but, this is like someone asking how can I learn calculus, and someone saying read the encyclopedia.

People should read the Bible, and have people to discuss it with. To start for the answers to his Chick questions, someone who knows Catholic theology would be a better choice.

If he is looking for Salvation, a better place is prayer.
20 posted on 09/28/2004 7:41:09 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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