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To: PetroniusMaximus

"The Church is the Bride of Christ."

And as members of the Church we are espoused to Christ. Do you not believe that Mary is a member of the Church?

"To say that Mary is the mother AND wife of Christ is something the NT writers would have considered immoral and scandeous beyond measure..."

How shocking - it might even have reminded them of Holy Scripture:

Is 62,5 "For as a young man marries a virgin,
so shall your sons marry you,
and as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride,
so shall your God rejoice over you."


208 posted on 09/22/2004 8:05:44 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo; PetroniusMaximus; JohnnyM
The Catholic equates Mary as the new Eve. Eve was the bride of Adam. Therefore, Mary the new Eve, must be the bride of Jesus Christ, the new Adam. That is where their typology leads them.

Typological formulations are not exact. They are suggestive.

In any case, if we're in agreement about the Church being the bride of Christ, then I wonder which marriage is it, in which the bride *does not take the mother of her husband as her own*. The last words of Christ on the cross to St. John--significantly not named but called "the disciple whom Jesus loved"—give Mary to that disciple.

If Jesus loves you, and I submit that He does, then it is to you that He gives His own mother. If you can't accept the more "advanced" Marian doctrines, that's one thing, but to refuse even the concept of Mary as your mother-in-law is to do violence to the very idea of the Bride of Christ.

224 posted on 09/22/2004 9:41:15 AM PDT by Claud
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To: Tantumergo

***And as members of the Church we are espoused to Christ. Do you not believe that Mary is a member of the Church?***

I do believe it. But you cannot Biblically prove that she is any sort of archtypal "New Eve". At least not in any way distinct from here membership in the true "Bride of Christ" the Church.



***so shall your sons marry you,****

Clearly allegorical - Jerusalem and Jews. Now check this out...

" 'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
" 'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads.
" 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
" 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you.
" 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal.
" 'If a woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it, kill both the woman and the animal. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.


You don't marry your mother. Marrying your mother is lumped together with the abominations of homosexuality and bestiality and is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE for use as a metaphor to describe Jesus relationship to Mary. 1st century readers would have vomitted in response to reading such an allegation. Such an offense was worth of death.

Mary was married to Joseph.

Jesus remained unmarried all his life so that it might be understood that his true bride was the Church, (and by Church I mean all who put their faith in Christ and are saved by his grace.)


240 posted on 09/22/2004 10:31:23 AM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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