Posted on 09/21/2004 7:43:13 AM PDT by Tantumergo
In discussing why we believe in the Immaculate Conception, it’s important to understand what the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is and what it is not. Some people think the term refers to Christ’s conception in Mary’s womb without the intervention of a human father; but that is the Virgin Birth. Others think the Immaculate Conception means Mary was conceived "by the power of the Holy Spirit," in the way Jesus was, but that, too, is incorrect. The Immaculate Conception means that Mary, whose conception was brought about in the normal way, was conceived without original sin or its stain — the meaning of "immaculate" being “without stain”. The essence of original sin consists in the deprivation of sanctifying grace, and its stain is a fallen nature. Mary was preserved from these defects by God’s grace; from the first instant of her existence she was in the state of sanctifying grace and was free from the corrupt nature original sin brings.
While in the West the doctrine has been taught somewhat negatively – the emphasis being on Mary’s sinlessness - the East has tended to put the accent instead on her abundant holiness. The colloquial term for her is Panagia, the All-Holy; for everything in her is holy.
Although this doctrine is not explicitly stated in Scripture (as indeed the Trinity is not explicitly stated), there is much implicit evidence that the New Testament Church believed in the sinlessness and holiness of the Mother of God.
The primary implicit reference can be found in the angel’s greeting to Mary. The angel Gabriel said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you" (Luke 1:28). The phrase "full of grace" is a translation of the Greek word kecharitomene. This word represents the proper name of the person being addressed by the angel, and it therefore expresses a characteristic quality of Mary.
The traditional translation, "full of grace," is more accurate than the one found in many recent versions of the New Testament, which tend to render the expression "highly favoured daughter." Mary was indeed a highly favoured daughter of God, but the Greek implies more than that (and it never mentions the word for "daughter"). The grace given to Mary is at once permanent and of a unique kind. Kecharitomene is a perfect passive participle of charitoo, meaning "to fill or endow with grace." Since this term is in the perfect tense, it indicates a perfection of grace that is both intensive and extensive. So, the grace Mary enjoyed was not a result of the angel’s visit, but rather it extended over the whole of her life. She must have been in a state of sanctifying grace from the first moment of her existence to have been called "full of grace."
However, this is not to imply that Mary had no need of a saviour. Like all other descendants of Adam, she was subject to the necessity of contracting original sin. But by a special intervention of God, undertaken at the instant she was conceived, she was preserved from the stain of original sin and its consequences. She was therefore redeemed by the grace of Christ, but in a special way - by anticipation.
If we consider an analogy: Suppose a man falls into a deep pit and someone reaches down to pull him out. The man has been "saved" from the pit. Now imagine a woman walking along, and she too is about to topple into the pit, but at the very moment that she is to fall in, someone holds her back and prevents her. She too has been saved from the pit, but in an even better way: she was not simply taken out of the pit; she was prevented from getting stained by the mud in the first place. By receiving Christ’s grace at her conception, she had his grace applied to her before she was able to become subject to original sin and its stain.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that she was "redeemed in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son" (CCC 492). She has more reason to call God her Saviour than we do, because he saved her in an even more glorious manner.
St. Luke also provides us with further evidence that the early Church believed in the sinlessness of Mary. In the first chapter of his gospel, he goes to great pains to recount the event of the Visitation in parallel terms to the recovery of the Ark of the Covenant by David in 2 Sam 6. The following contrasts are notable:
1) 2 Sam 6,2 “So David arose and went…set out for Baala of Judah” Lk 1,39 “And Mary rising up in those days, went…to a town of Judah”
2) 2 Sam 6,9 “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” Lk 1,43 “And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
3) 2 Sam 6,14 “And David danced with all his might before the Lord” Lk 1,44 “the infant in my womb leaped for joy.”
4) 2 Sam 6,11 “ And the ark of the Lord abode in the house of Obededom the Gittite three months.” Lk 1,56 “And Mary abode with her about three months.”
When taken in conjunction with Gabriel’s earlier promise to Mary that “The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the most High shall overshadow thee.” (Lk 1,35) in similar language to that describing the descent of the Shekinah on the ark, it is clear that St. Luke considers Mary to be the fulfilment of the type of the Ark of the Covenant.
In Luke’s mind she is the ark of the New Covenant. Just as the old ark contained the Word of God written on stone, the bread from heaven in the form of manna, and the priestly staff of Aaron; so the new ark contains the Word of God enfleshed, the true bread of heaven, and the high priest of the New Covenant.
Up until its disappearance 500 years earlier the ark had been the holiest thing in all creation – even to touch it or look into it was to bring death or plagues on non-Levites. Similarly then, the ark of the New Covenant would have been viewed as the holiest created being by the early Jewish Christians. Mary’s holiness was by the specific design of heaven, just as the old ark was given as a specific design from heaven.
This understanding of Mary as the ark is not just limited to the Lucan tradition. We also find Johannine understanding of this teaching in the Apocalypse. If we omit the medieval chapter and verse numberings, we see that John’s vision, following the judgement of Jerusalem and the Old Covenant, reveals:
“And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his covenant was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail. And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars:” Apoc. 11,19-12,1
While some commentators see in the figure of the woman a corporate type of Israel or the Church, these can only be secondary meanings as the same vision reveals two other figures which both have primary individual identities: Satan and the woman’s child – Jesus Christ:
Apoc 12,3 “And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: Apoc 12,9 “And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan.”
Apoc 12,5 “And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.”
Thus many fathers of the Church as well as recent Popes have clearly identified the ark/woman as Mary, the Holy Mother of God. This should not be surprising as John is here recapitulating the whole of revelation. Not only is he portraying the breaking in of the New Covenant, but of the new creation itself. The early chapters of Genesis where we see the man and woman in conflict with the serpent at the beginning of the old creation, are now recapitulated with the new Adam and the new Eve in conflict with that same serpent, though this time with positive results. Revelation has come full circle with the final triumph of God over the devil through the woman and her seed as first foretold in Genesis 3,15.
This is why early fathers such as St Irenaeus, St Ephraim, St. Ambrose and St. Augustine could clearly identify Mary as the new Eve as well as the Ark of the Covenant. For in a way that Eve in her disobedience could only be physically the mother of all the living, Mary is now revealed as the true mother of all the living in Jesus Christ:
Apoc 12,17 “And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
It is only reasonable to conclude, then, that just as the first Eve was created without sin and filled with sanctifying grace, so the new Eve who was to “untie the knot of disobedience” wrought by the first, should be also so conceived. Or, as Cardinal Newman put it:
“Now, can we refuse to see that, according to these Fathers, who are earliest of the early, Mary was a typical woman like Eve, that both were endued with special gifts of grace, and that Mary succeeded where Eve failed?” Memorandum on the Immaculate Conception. Cardinal John Henry Newman.
Although arguments from authority can often be the weakest form of argument, as Catholics, it is worth finally pointing out that the ultimate reason for believing in the Immaculate Conception is that this doctrine has been infallibly defined as being revealed by God, and as such our salvation depends on adhering to it:
"Accordingly, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, for the honour of the Holy and undivided Trinity, for the glory and adornment of the Virgin Mother of God, for the exaltation of the Catholic Faith, and for the furtherance of the Catholic religion, by the authority of Jesus Christ our Lord, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own: "We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful." Hence, if anyone shall dare—which God forbid!—to think otherwise than as has been defined by us, let him know and understand that he is condemned by his own judgment; that he has suffered shipwreck in the faith; that he has separated from the unity of the Church; and that, furthermore, by his own action he incurs the penalties established by law if he should dare to express in words or writing or by any other outward means the errors he think in his heart." Ineffabilis Deus, Bl. Pope Pius IX
Guess Mary didn't tell any of the other kids about the "virgin birth". lol.
Where?
When a young child runs off, it would not be sinful because he does not know any better.
But Jesus was about 12 when he did it, so it's an interesting question you bring up. Did Jesus sin by not telling his parents where he would be? If they had told him not to do such a thing, then not going would not be honoring his father and mother, a breach of one of the Ten Commandments.
More likely, it never came up. Really, have you ever been on a long car trip with a 12 year old, either as a parent or with yourself as the 12 year old? Generally, parents don't brief kids not to get out of the car at some point and not come back. It's assumed they won't. Jesus no doubt gave his parents quite a fright, and perhaps he should not have done that. Of course, if he hadn't then we wouldn't have the great story in Luke.
Anyway, if we assume for the sake of argument that Jesus' behavior was not what a parent would hope for from a 12 year old, I suppose the answer would be that Jesus was, after all, in his Father's house. I doubt that made Mary much happier about the incident.
As to disciplining children in the ancient world, who can really say how it was? There certainly were very strong female characters running around the Greco-Roman world. In Saudi Arabia today, where woman are very effaced, they rule their young children with an iron fist. We know from John's account of Jesus' first miracle at Cana that Mary was not above laying a Jewish mother guilt trip on her son and twisting his arm to do what he doesn't want to do.
Think of the setup:
Mary: "Jesus, they have no wine.
Jesus: "Why's that our problem?"
Mary (ignoring her son's objections and turning to the servants): "Do whatever he says."
I'd assume people were people then, as now, and that the cultural differences were not so great that women did not boss around their kids. Mary bossed around Jesus as an adult, at Cana! (The only case in the Bible of a human being twisting God's arm to do something that God makes clear he doesn't want to do.)
SD
***Luke says they were righteous in the eyes of God and blameless - how then could they have been sinful? This is not at all logical.***
Sins that are forgiven are not longer a cause for blame.
There is only one person the Bible says never sinned, that person is Jesus...
1 John 3:5
"You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin."
or more literally...
""And sin (the sinful principle) in him is not."
The Bible abounds with references to Jesus' sinlessness, but one is particularly interesting...
2 Cor 5:21
He made the One who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Interesting to note that Jesus is "the ONE who did not know sin" - as in "the ONLY ONE".
***Moral : Blessed is she who BELIEVED THROUGH GRACE for faith and salvation do not come through the observance of the works of the law, but through GRACE.***
Great point!
BTW: did you know that the word "full of grace" or "enriched with grace" i.e. kecharitomene - is not just used to describe Mary? It is also used to describe Christians in Eph 1:6
"To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us "accepted in" the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;"
(kecharitomene). Perfect passive participle of charitom and means endowed with grace (charis).
God's grace and the blood of Christ has made Christians "full of grace".
***If this logic were to be applied, then Jesus' insistence on being baptised by John would imply that Jesus was a sinner. I'm sure you don't believe this!****
Just for this very reason the Gospel writers went OUT OF THEIR WAY to make sure the the reader understood that Jesus was not in need of baptism for the remission of sins but partook in order to "fulfill all righteousness".
***Guess Mary didn't tell any of the other kids about the "virgin birth". lol.***
John 7:5
"For not even his brothers believed in him."
what does that have to do with what I said?
I think intent matters somewhat but that pales in comparison to our awful guilt before God.
Isn't that putting the cart before the horse? How can our "awful guilt" be a much larger factor in determining our guilt than our very ability to understand and undertake good behavior?
Let me re-phrase the question: Do you think the mentally ill, mentally retarded and the young "sin"?
SD
No I'm not, but I am aware of another place or two in NT embellishments and writings where it mentions the word "cousin" and "cousins", should you be interested.
***what does that have to do with what I said?***
Just confirming what asformeandformyhouse said.
First of all don’t quote from a corrupted text: “And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.” Matthew 1:25
Matthew 1:25 does not disprove the perpetual virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary. You have made the same mistake that so many linguistic literalists, along with heretics like Helvidius, make. Thinking, incorrectly, that the word until or more accurately till implies a reversal or ceasing of the state or condition in the clause preceding it, which it does not. Look up the word in a dictionary to confirm that. You also exhibit a very poor comprehension of the Koine Greek seizing on what you perceive as a difference, which doesn’t exist, in the use of heos hou and heos. Your failure to point out the additional uses of till and until throughout Scripture, a sample of which are below, also impeach your argument and show you to be a smorgasbord Scripturist picking and choosing what you think supports your claim and ignoring that which does not.
Given the choice between relying on Sophocles and his Greek Lexicon of the Roman and Byzantine Periods, Stephanus and his Thesaurus Graecae Linguae, the Septuagint, St. John Chrysostom, St. Athanasius, St. Jerome, St.Augustine, St.Ambrose, et al, Greek scholars and you; who embraces the absurd notion that Joseph, as a just man and faithful Jew, believing that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, that he worshipped, being the same God that Fathered the Child in the womb of the Blessed Virgin Mary, would then, following the birth of God Incarnate, have relations with her, is a no brainer.
“And after that forty days were passed, Noe, opening the window of the ark which he had made, sent forth a raven: Which went forth and did not return, till the waters were dried up upon the earth.” Genesis 8:6-7, the raven did not return.
“In His days shall justice spring up, and abundance of peace, till the moon be taken away.” Psalm 71:7, peace and justice shall reign forever.
“his heart is strengthened, he shall not be moved until he look over his enemies.” Psalm 111:8, the blessed man who delights in the Lord’s commandments will continue to be strong and be unafraid even after he looks over his enemies.
“But Paul appealing to be reserved unto the hearing of Augustus, I commanded him to be kept, till I might send him to Caesar.” Acts 25:21, when Paul was to be sent on he was going to remain in custody not released.
“Till I come, attend unto reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine.” 1 Timothy 4:13, Paul does not mean that said behavior would cease after his arrival in Ephesus.
“For He must reign, until He hath put all His enemies under His feet.” 1 Corinthians 15:25, Christ will reign forever as the following proves: “He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the most High; and the Lord God shall give unto Him the throne of David His father; and He shall reign in the house of Jacob forever. And of His kingdom there shall be no end.” Luke 1:32-33
“And we have the more firm prophetical word: whereunto you do well to attend, as to a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.” 2 Peter 1:19, we don’t cease being attentive to the truth after the day dawns.
The word until appears in Scripture ~309 times and the word till appears ~338 times. A good exercise for you would be to find each appearance and read it in its proper context.
The Scriptures state that Joseph kept her a virgin until she gave birth at which point they consummated their marriage and had sons and daughters as evidenced by the mention of Jesus' brothers and sisters in the Bible.
The Scriptures state no such thing. Provide the passages, which indicate that Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary engaged in conjugal relations or that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to any child other than Jesus Christ. You won’t be able to. Once again you get tripped up by your linguistic literalist crutch; brothers, sisters, brethren and your extremely poor knowledge of Scripture, Sacred Tradition and history.
“He said to him: Because thou art my brother, shalt thou serve me without wages? Tell me what wages thou wilt have.” Genesis 29:15, however we know from the following that Laban is the son of Nachor and Jacob is the son of Isaac and Rebecca, they were not blood brothers.
“And he asked them, saying: Knowing you Laban the son of Nachor? They said: We know him?” Genesis 29:5
“And Isaac besought the Lord for his wife, because she was barren; and he heard him, and made Rebecca to conceive. But the children struggled in the womb: and she said: If it were to be so with me, what need was there to conceive? And she went to consult the Lord. And he answering said: Two nations are in thy womb, and two peoples shall be divided out of thy womb, and one people shall overcome the other, and the elder shall serve the younger. And when her time was come to be delivered, behold twins were found in her womb. He that came forth first was red and hairy like a skin: and his name was Esau. Immediately the other coming forth, held his brother’s foot in his hand, and therefore he was called Jacob. Isaac was threescore years old when the children were born unto him.” Genesis 25:21-26
“For whosoever shall do the will of My Father, that is in heaven, he is My brother, and sister, and mother.” Matthew 12:50, these are not blood relatives of Christ.
“For whosoever shall do the will of God, he is My brother, and My sister, and mother.” Mark 3:35, these are not blood relatives of Christ.
“Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, Saying: The Scribes and the Pharisees have sitten on the chair of Moses. All things therefore whatsoever they shall say to you, observe and do: but according to their works do ye not; for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy and insupportable burdens, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but with a finger of their own they will not move them. And all their works they do for to be seen of men. For they make their phylacteries broad, and enlarge their fringes. And they love the first places at feasts, and the first chairs in the synagogues, And salutations in the market place, and to be called by men, Rabbi. But be not you called Rabbi. For one is your master; and all you are brethren.” Matthew 23:1-8, these multitudes and disciples were not all blood relatives.
“In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said: (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty:) Men, brethren, the scripture must needs be fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who was the leader of them that apprehended Jesus:” Acts 1:15-16, these brethren were not all blood relatives.
“But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat.” 1Corinthians 5:11, said individuals are not necessarily blood brothers.
“Then He was seen by more than five hundred brethren at once: of whom many remain until this present, and some are fallen asleep.” 1Corinthians 15:6, these 500 were not blood relatives of Christ.
“And there were also women looking on afar off: among them was Mary Magdalen, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joseph and Salome:” Mark 15:40
“Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, his mother, and his mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas and Mary Magdalen.” John 19:25
“And the names of the twelve apostles are these: The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the publican, and James the son of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, Simon the Cananean, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.” Matthew 10:2-4, Alpheus is an alternate translation of Cleophas(Clophas) hence he is one in the same.
“And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode Peter and John, James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James of Alpheus, and Simon Zelotes, and Jude the brother of James. And all these were persevering with one mind in prayer with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brethren.” Acts 1:13 –14, Mary is called the mother of Jesus not the mother of Jesus and His brethren.
“Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joseph, and Jude and Simon? Are not also his sisters here with us? And they were scandalized in regard of him.” Mark 6:3, Christ is called the son of Mary, not a son of Mary. These brothers and sisters are never called the sons and daughters of His mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
From these five passages from Scripture one can clearly see that there is another Mary who was the wife of Alpheus(Cleophas/Clophas) and the mother of James the less, Joseph and Jude. Simon is the Cananean, also called the Zelotes:
“And to Simon He gave the name Peter: And James the son of Zebedee, and John the brother of James; and He named them Boanerges, which is, The sons of thunder: And Andrew and Philip, and Bartholomew and Matthew, and Thomas and James of Alpheus, and Thaddeus, and Simon the Cananean: And Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.” Mark 3:16-19
“And when the day was come, He called unto Him His disciples; and He chose twelve of them (whom also he named apostles): Simon, who he surnamed Peter, and Andrew his brother, James and John, Philip and Bartholomew, Matthew and Thomas, James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who is called Zelotes, And Jude the brother of James, and Judas Iscariot, who was the traitor.” Luke 6:13-16
“Jude the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James: to them that are beloved in God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ and called.” Jude 1:1, Jude is also called Thaddeus in Matthew 10:3 and Mark 3:18 to distinguish him from Judas Iscariot.
“Now there stood by the cross of Jesus, His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalen. When Jesus therefore had seen His mother and the disciple standing whom He loved, He saith to His mother: Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own.” John 19:25-27. If Christ had brothers and sisters, as you incorrectly claim, why would He entrust the care of His mother to John the son of Zebedee and Salome? Particularly considering Matthew 15 where Christ condemns the Pharisees for the Korban rule, which allowed children to avoid taking care of their parents. Also, where were the siblings of Christ when at the age of 12 He was left in Jerusalem in Luke 2:41-51?
If the Blessed Virgin Mary had given birth to other children then they would have been younger and would not have violated Jewish custom and law by advising and criticizing their older brother: “And His brethren said to Him: Pass from hence, and go into Judea; that thy disciples also may see thy works which Thou dost. For there is no man that doth any thing in secret, and he himself seeketh to be known openly. If Thou do these things, manifest Thyself to the world. For neither did His brethren believe in Him.” John 7:3-4. “And when His friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on Him. For they said: He is become mad.” Mark 3:21
You also need to confirm that as a literalist you accept that Joseph is the father of Jesus and not the Holy Spirit as described in: “Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brethren James, and Joseph, and Simon, and Jude:” Matthew 13:55
Zebedee & Salome begot James the great and John
Alpheus(Cleophas/Clophas) & Mary(the other Mary from Mt 27:56, 61 28:1, Jn 19:25) begot James the less, Joseph and Jude
The Holy Spirit & The Blessed Virgin Mary begot Jesus Christ.
Even Calvin, Luther and Zwingli believed that the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to only one child, Jesus Christ.
“There have been certain folk who have wished to suggest from this passage [Matthew 1:25] that the Virgin Mary had other children than the Son of God, and that Joseph had then dwelt with her later; but what folly this is! For the gospel writer did not wish to record what happened afterwards; he simply wished to make clear Joseph’s obedience and to show that Joseph had been well and truly assured that it was God who had sent His angel to Mary. He had therefore never dwelt with her nor had he shared her company… And besides this Our Lord Jesus Christ is called the first-born. This is not because there was a second or a third, but because the gospel writer is paying regard to the precedence. Scripture speaks thus of naming the first-born whether or not there was any question of the second.” Calvin, Sermon on Matthew 1:22-25, published 1562 AD.
“It is an article of faith that Mary is the Mother of the Lord and still a virgin…. Christ, we believe, came forth from a womb left perfectly intact.” Luther, Works of Luther, Vol. 11, pp. 319-320; Vol. 6,pg. 510.
“I firmly believe that Mary, according to the words of the gospel, as a pure Virgin brought forth for us the Son of God and in childbirth and after childbirth forever remained a pure, intact Virgin.” Zwingli, Zwingli Opera, Vol. 1, pg. 424.
Jesus is a type of the Ark of the Covenant. To associate Mary with the Ark is take Glory away from Christ Jesus and to give it to Mary.
Incorrect. Once again you possess a very poor comprehension of Scripture and Typology. The Old Testament prepares the way for the New Testament. The New Testament lies hidden in the Old Testament while the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. Persons and events in the Old Testament, which prefigure those in the New Testament, are types. Typology reveals that many New Testament doctrines are taught in the Old Testament.
“For as Jonas was in the whale’s belly three days and three nights: so shall the Son of man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.” Matthew 12:40, foreshadows Christs’ three days in the tomb.
“And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up:” John 3:14, Numbers 21:9 symbolizes the crucifixion of Christ.
“In which also coming He preached to those spirits that were in prison. Which had been some time incredulous, when they waited for the patience of God in the days of Noe, when the ark was a building: wherein a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water. Whereunto baptism being of the like form, now saveth you also: not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the examination of a good conscience towards God by the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:19-21, Peter points out that the flood prefigured Christian baptism.
“And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)” 1 Corinthians 10:4, Paul doesn’t say that the rock was like Christ, the rock was Christ. The relationship between an Old Testament type and its New Testament manifestation is not simply a similarity.
“But death reigned from Adam unto Moses, even over them also who have not sinned after the similitude of the transgression of Adam, who is a figure of Him who was to come.” Romans 5:14, Adam is a type of Christ. This passage, specifically, disproves your claim that Christ is a type of the Ark of the Covenant.
Also, Mary is not a type of Eve, for Eve is a type of the Church. To place Mary as Eve would be to say she is the bride of Christ.
Incorrect. There are three major Old Testament types of the Blessed Virgin Mary: Eve, the Ark of the Covenant and the Queen Mother.
The devil, himself a fallen angel, brought words of death to Eve. The angel Gabriel brought words of life to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Eve, mankinds’ mother in the flesh, disobeyed God and brought about the manifestation of Adams’ sin, thus causing the fall of humanity. The Blessed Virgin Mary obeyed God and played a central role in the redemptive mission of Jesus Christ which saved humanity.
“The first man Adam was made into a living soul; the last Adam into a quickening spirit.” 1Corinthians 15:45, Christ is the new Adam and the Blessed Virgin Mary is the new Eve.
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. To the woman also He said: I will multiply thy sorrows, and thy conceptions: in sorrow shalt thou bring forth children, and thou shalt be under thy husband’s power and he shall have dominion over thee. And to Adam He said: Because thou hast harkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldst not eat, cursed is the earth in thy work; with labour and toil shalt thou eat therefore of all the days of thy life.” Genesis 3:15-17, this describes the fall team of Adam and Eve as well the redemption team, Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary. Even the early Church fathers recognized this. Eves’ role in the fall of man was pivotal. Just as the Blessed Virgin Marys’ role in Christs’ redemption of mankind was pivotal.
The holiest object in the Old Testament was the Ark because it contained the Commandants given to Moses on Mount Sinai. God gave explicit instructions for its construction in Exodus. “Frame an ark of setim wood, the length whereof shall be of two cubits and a half: the breadth, acubit and a half: the height, likewise, a cubit and a half. And thou shalt overlay it with the purest gold within and without: and over it thou shalt make a golden crown round about: And four golden rings, which thou shalt put at the four corners of the ark: let two rings be on the one side, and two on the other. Thou shalt make bars also of setim wood, and shall overlay them with gold. And thou shalt put them in through the rings that are in the sides of the ark, that it may be carried on them. And they shall always be in the rings, neither shall they at any time be drawn out of them. And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee.” Exodus 25:10-16, the ark must be constructed from incorruptible materials and free from profanation. “And when they came to the floor of Nachon, Oza put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it: because the oxen kicked and made it lean aside. And the indignation of the Lord was enkindled against Oza, and he struck him for his rashness: and he died there before the ark of God.” 2 Kings 6:6-7
The connection between the Ark of the Covenant and the Blessed Virgin Mary is crystal clear. The Ark, free from blemish, carried the written Word of God; the Blessed Virgin Mary, free from blemish, carried the living Word of God.
“And I shall be spotless with Him: and shall keep myself from my iniquity.” Psalms 17:24
“Thou art all fair, O my love, and there is not a spot in thee.” Canticle of Canticles 4:7
“For wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul, nor dwell in a body subject to sins. For the Holy Spirit of discipline will flee from the deceitful, and will withdraw Himself from thoughts that are without understanding, and He shall not abide when iniquity cometh in.” Wisdom 1:4-5
“But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and justice, and sanctification, and redemption:” 1 Corinthians 1:30.
“That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy, and without blemish.” Ephesians 5:27, the Blessed Virgin Mary is the model of the Church, which is the bride of Christ.
“That, being justified by His grace, we may be heirs, according to hope of life everlasting.” Titus 3:7
“And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.” Luke 1:28
Above all else, there is no mention in the Scriptures of her "Immaculate" conception.
That’s a straw man, at best. Where can one find the mention in Scripture of the following words: Bible, Incarnation and Trinity? One can’t. The Immaculate Conception is implicitly mentioned throughout Scripture as I have quoted. Your Sola Scriptura, a doctrine not found in Scripture, argument, trips you up just as your linguistic literalist crutch does.
It’s intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that your knowledge of Scripture, not to mention history of the Church, Christendom and the Church Fathers, is woefully inadequate.
kids didn't believe Jesus, doesn't say they didn't believe Mary. Guess she didn't tell them. I suspect because the virgin birth really didn't happen.
***Do you think the mentally ill, mentally retarded and the young "sin"?***
Sure! Have you ever been around a bratty, petulant infant? Let me tell you, there is sin in that young heart!
Psalms 51:5
"Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
But I also believe the sin of the young and mentally retarded are covered by the blood of Christ.
***I suspect because the virgin birth really didn't happen.***
On what do you base this (lack of) belief?
common sense
There is no sin without knowing and choosing to do what is wrong.
But I also believe the sin of the young and mentally retarded are covered by the blood of Christ.
How is this so? Have they repented of it? Or do they just get some sort of "free pass." Do you not believe in salvation by faith alone?
SD
***There is no sin without knowing and choosing to do what is wrong***
Look at the verse again...
Psalms 51:5
"Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me."
Sin is not only trespassing or going beyond what is allowed but also falling short of what is required.
***How is this so? Have they repented of it? Or do they just get some sort of "free pass." ***
Matt 19
Then children were brought to him that he might lay his hands on them and pray. The disciples rebuked the people, but Jesus said,
"Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven."
***common sense***
Do you believe the Bible to be the inspired, inerrant word of God?
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