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Why do we believe in the Immaculate Conception?
2nd March 2003 | Deacon Augustine

Posted on 09/21/2004 7:43:13 AM PDT by Tantumergo

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1 posted on 09/21/2004 7:43:13 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: razorbak

.


2 posted on 09/21/2004 7:45:13 AM PDT by RedBloodedAmerican
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To: MegaSilver

Ping to the essay in question.

Apologies for the lack of bibliography, footnotes and reams of unattributed plagiarism, but I hope at least that it will help flesh out the doctrine from a Scriptural angle.


3 posted on 09/21/2004 7:47:07 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo

Very interesting article. It begs a question though. I've read many times that it appears Jesus had siblings. Were they also, then, immaculately conceived?


4 posted on 09/21/2004 7:49:31 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: Shryke
Saint Damasus comissioned Saint Jerome to translate the whole Bible into Latin. Saint Jerome's version of the Holy Scriptures in Latin is the one that has been recited by all Catholic priests from his day (420) to ours. It took Saint Jerome fourteen years to make his first version in Latin of the Holy Scripture in what is known as the Vulgate.

He is the Doctor of the Church who beautifully let us know that Saint Cleophas was the brother of Saint Joseph. This explains why Saint James, Saint Simon and Saint Jude, the sons of Saint Cleophas, and Saint James the Greater and Saint John, his grandsons, are referred to as "the bretheren of Our Lord."

5 posted on 09/21/2004 7:52:54 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: Stubborn
Ah, so this is the standard Catholic position? That the term used for "brother" could mean cousin, etc.? Jesus must have been an only child?
6 posted on 09/21/2004 8:00:04 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: Shryke

If Jesus has blood siblings, why did He leave His mother to John, the Beloved Apostle?


7 posted on 09/21/2004 8:01:37 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Pyro7480

I don't know. Please don't get the impression I am trying to "challenge" Catholicism's doctrines - I am simply learning their position.


8 posted on 09/21/2004 8:04:22 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: Tantumergo
That ball was touched by the defender. Franco Harris made a legitimate catch.......
oh wait....never-mind !
9 posted on 09/21/2004 8:05:26 AM PDT by stylin19a (Of all the things i have lost in my life, I miss my mind the most.)
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To: Shryke

"Ah, so this is the standard Catholic position? That the term used for "brother" could mean cousin, etc.? Jesus must have been an only child?"

There was another theory also adopted by some of the Fathers (more prevalent among the Greeks). They said that St. Joseph was a widower when he married the Mother of God, and that he had children by that former marriage - Mary was their step-mother.

Whichever theory that they held, however, the Fathers were unanimous that the Blessed Virgin remained so after the birth of Jesus and consequently bore no other children herself.


10 posted on 09/21/2004 8:16:40 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Shryke
Yes, it is the standard Catholic position.

Jesus had no other siblings. The term used for "brother" can mean cousin etc.

Our Lady, from the very instant of her existance in the womb of her mother, was concieved without the stain of sin (known as "original sin" or "the sin of Adam") because although every other person that is born into this world has the sin of Adam handed down to them by their parents, for God's purpose and by His will, God spared Mary of this sin due to the impending position that She was to partake of later in life, hence, any child that She would have bore would not have had the necessary ingredient to be born in original sin because She was not born in original sin, therefore the sin itself nor its effects could be handed down to Her child.

11 posted on 09/21/2004 8:18:34 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: Stubborn; Shryke

"The term used for "brother" can mean cousin etc."

Correct. The Greek word used for "brothers" in the NT is "adelphoi" (cf. Philadelphia - the city of brotherly love).

There is a clear example of it being used to include a wider range of relatives in the Greek translation of the old Testament in the book of Genesis. Abraham and Lot are referred to as bothers - "adelphoi" - however, their actual relationship is one of uncle and nephew.


12 posted on 09/21/2004 8:24:21 AM PDT by Tantumergo
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To: Tantumergo; All

Thanks for the information.


13 posted on 09/21/2004 8:25:47 AM PDT by Shryke (Never retreat. Never explain. Get it done and let them howl.)
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To: Tantumergo

Interesting. I had not heard that theory. I was taught that the reason St. Joseph was chosen was because of his great love of God and his purity of heart, as demonstrated in the Litany of Loretto ~ "St. Joseph Her most chaste spouse". Its also the reason that in all the pictures, statues etc. of St. Joseph, he always holds a white lily, the symbol of purity.


14 posted on 09/21/2004 8:32:59 AM PDT by Stubborn (It is the Mass that matters)
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To: Tantumergo
Correct. The Greek word used for "brothers" in the NT is "adelphoi"

Sorry. The correct interpretation of 'adelphoi' is 'from the same womb'. Cousins are not from the same womb.

15 posted on 09/21/2004 8:45:53 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse (Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.)
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To: Pyro7480
If Jesus has blood siblings, why did He leave His mother to John, the Beloved Apostle?

Because at the time, none of his brothers believed he was the Messiah. James did not believe until later.

16 posted on 09/21/2004 8:47:34 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse (Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.)
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To: asformeandformyhouse

His being Messiah would have nothing to do with it. He lived in a Jewish culture, and it would be very odd for Him to leave His mother with someone who wasn't related to her.


17 posted on 09/21/2004 8:51:05 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: Tantumergo
Although this doctrine is not explicitly stated in Scripture

Then why don't we just let the silence of the scripture remain silent. What scripture does tell us about Mary should be enough for us to highly respect her as the type of woman that God would use to bring his Son into the world. Since that is all that God has told us, shouldn't that be enough.

Deuteronomy 29:29  The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

18 posted on 09/21/2004 8:51:53 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse (Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.)
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To: Shryke
I've read many times that it appears Jesus had siblings.

The Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to one child, Jesus Christ. So says Sacred Scripture.

19 posted on 09/21/2004 8:52:24 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: Pyro7480
He lived in a Jewish culture, and it would be very odd for Him to leave His mother with someone who wasn't related to her.

Not really. The jewish culture was about to be drastically changed. And the brotherhood of believers in Christ would become even more binding than that of blood relations.

Matthew 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

20 posted on 09/21/2004 8:55:31 AM PDT by asformeandformyhouse (Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.)
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