Posted on 09/20/2004 3:43:25 AM PDT by Stubborn
"If the Son is a King, then the Mother who bore Him should be looked upon as a queen and sovereign."
"Since the flesh of Mary was no different from that of Jesus, how can we deny to the Mother the same royal dignity we find in the Son? . . . So I would consider the glory of the Son not as something shared with His Mother, but as her glory too."
If Jesus is the King of the universe, then Mary is its Queen. And as Queen, she possesses by right the whole Kingdom of her Son.
In a grassy field about 5 miles from my house there is a statue of Mary. The field is across from a Catholic facility, and is the venue where some vision of Mary was spotted some time in years past.
People go out into that field and bow down to that statue, then they get up in put money into a roofed and padlocked box with a wire mesh around it.
I don't like to think anyone is involved in idol worship and sacrifice thereto, but I have a hard time calling this anything else. Sorry. 
What was prophesied in the Old Testament was fulfilled in the New Testament.
Could you cite some Scriptures discussing the mothers of Saul and David?
Not this one:
Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
What was prophesied in the Old Testament was fulfilled in the New Testament.
What (in regard to our present discussion) was prophesied in the Old Testament ?
I don't think you are understanding my point. I am not here to argue whether or not the Septuagint was inspired. I don't even want to argue whether it was historically correct. Let's say that it has no more to do with religion than a government document written in Greek in 250 B.C.
The reason that verse is so important to the discussion has nothing to do with it's inspiration, it has to do with the language it was written in.
The language is greek. It is a clear example, as are the others laid out previously, where the Greek word "heos" does not end the action in the clause preceeding it. The place where the text is found is, in my opinion, important (due to the fact that it was writing that the writers of the new testament would have been familiar with), but it is not THAT important. If that sentence were from a government document, as I stated before, it is still an example of the usage of the greek word "heos".
You are arguing from the language that because of this word "heos", Mary must have stopped being a virgin after the birth. This does not hold water, regardless of what you think of the Septuagint. You don't need to prove that these men who translated from Hebrew to Greek weren't inspired, you need to prove that they didn't understand Greek. And when you have proven that, I have quite a few more quotes from Greek sources where "heos" does not mean what you are claiming it means in every situation.
Again, try to argue against the perpetual virginity of Mary, if you be so bold. But to base your argument on the word "heos" meaning that Mary must have stopped being a virgin after Christ's birth is to build your house on quicksand, it will not stand.
Could you cite some Scriptures discussing the mothers of Saul and David?
I don't believe that they are mentioned ... certainly not as queen.
Can you cite any Old Testament scripture which cites any God-ordained queens ?
There are many mis-guided notions that those who are not of the Catholic faith have in regards to what they percieve - or choose to percieve, in regards to praying to Saints, Our Lady, Angels, holy pictures etc. etc. mainly, I think, because they themselves choose to believe that we all worship the same God - which we do not.
The OT typology of kings and queens prefigured Christ the King and Mary as Queen Mother.
There are several other OT typologies outside of this discussion.
I don't believe that they are mentioned ... certainly not as queen.
The first mention of a queen mother is Bathsheba, mother of Solomon. Thereafter, Scripture records the name of the mother of the king. The queen mother became an official position.
Sarah, wife of Abraham, was a prefigurement of the same. Her name means princess. She was the mother of the son who received the covenant, not the first born son of Abraham.
Can you cite any Old Testament scripture which cites any God-ordained queens ?
Psalms 45.
I'd say those passages were nicely fulfilled in Christ and the success of Christianity.
The northern kindom (House of Israel) was captured by the Assyrian empire sometime in the 9th century BC. Jesus appeared in the remnants of the southern kingdom (House of Judah), those that returned from captivity by Nebuchadnezzar.
The ten tribes of the northern kindom are still unaccounted for to this day.
Christianity had nothing to do with it. The passeges are quite clear, Israel and Judah.
The Rosary is simply a profound passage of the bible and a humble request for a prayer for you, me and all of us regardless of whether anyone believes as we do or their particular state of grace.
I'm perplexed when I see some here log onto a forum of strangers and ask for prayers (nothing wrong with that at all), yet won't afford the Mother of God the Word Incarnate to do the same. In all truthfulness this is illogical. I'm not condemning it, I just can't work it out. The science of believing that we would somehow anger our Lord by asking His mother to pray for us doesn't resolve for me either.
As God tells us, the door between life and death to Him is non-existent, which is why we believe that those who have died can be prayed for and asked for prayers. We are all very much in communion.
Mary has incredible power over evil to the point that even Muslims regard her as the most gracious and holy woman that ever lived.
The children of Israel can be Christians, as Christianity received the inheritance of OT Judaism. Modern day Judaic practice bears little resemblance to OT practice. The priesthood is gone, the Temple destroyed and the Davidic lineage lost.
The Christian story isn't over yet. Christ will come again.
In other words, to Catholics it's a spiritual experience; to others it's a duck.
I understand the distinction of some Catholics saying they do not pray to Mary to worship her. However, I must confess this took me much time and research to learn this. This is not how it is portrayed. On the contrary. When I see statements like the following:
"So I would consider the glory of the Son not as something shared with His Mother, but as her glory too."
I'm not sure if Mary isn't worshipped in parts of the Catholic (and other Fatima) religions.
The OT typology of kings and queens prefigured Christ the King and Mary as Queen Mother.
Once again ... such was not according to the desire of God.1 Samuel 8:18 And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.
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