To: marshmallow
"...one of today's key words for you..."
You propose to teach. What have I learned from your key-word lesson? You've taught me that you have not honored your own key-words, but have yourself violated those two words which the pope promotes, to whit, Respect and Dialogue. Here's how:
You have accused others of the following:
1. An inability to comprehend
2. Scorn
3. Overwheening pride
4. Lack of charity
5. Lacking humility
6. Lacking prudence
7. Self-righteousness
Further more, you have made use of sarcasm:
8. "Blessed are the peacemakers, indeed."
...and attributed statments not made:
9. inevitable damnation for all those who disagree
I cannot therefore hold you to be one who practices what you would teach.
The Pope says this: "Faith in Christ does not impel us to intolerance." Even if it were true that traditional Catholics were really guilty of the entire list of offenses you provide above, why are you not tolerant of them in spite of this? How is it that you can be the accuser, while no one else can? Why are you exempt in the course of judging others? Why aren't you tolerant? I know the answer to this: I simply believe that you are guilty of the same things you would rebuke others for.
To other matters:
"Bolding individual words in a single article is a very poor way to interpret his thoughts. It's a method which can and is used to twist virtually any piece of writing."
It is impossible to twist this writing so that it does not speak of secular humanism.
As for the last quote provided regarding indifferentism: the pope does very well here upholding the one path to salvation, which is the Catholic Church. In fact, I could provide for you, if you wish, quotes which are even more precise and pointed than this, coming from Pope John Paul II. Once or twice, he has actually come out and stated that all who are outside the Barque of Peter are lost.
But the anti-syncretism and anti-indifferetism quotes are few and far between in the course of a very long papacy of words and actions which fly in the face of doctrine and tradition. If you would, please, find me more than one or two statements of John Paul II to support the claim that "the Pope has repeatedly spoken out against syncretism." As indifferentism and syncretism are pandemic in our times, and given that you have claimed that he has repeatedly spoken against these things: I ask you, marshmallow, in the name of Dialogue and Respect, to provide for me more quotes or example, that I may come to know the truth which you possess.
38 posted on
09/10/2004 11:48:36 AM PDT by
pascendi
(Quicumque vult salvus esse, ante omnia opus est, ut teneat catholicam fidem)
To: pascendi
It is impossible to twist this writing so that it does not speak of secular humanism.
Just as it is impossible to bridge the following from Pope St. Pius X and this latest message from our current Pope.
But stranger still, alarming and saddening at the same time, are the audacity and frivolity of men who call themselves Catholics and dream of re-shaping society under such conditions, and of establishing on earth, over and beyond the pale of the Catholic Church, 'the reign of love and justice' with workers coming from everywhere, of all religions and of no religion, with or without beliefs, so long as they forego what might divide them - their religious and philosophical convictions - and so long as they share what unites them - a 'generous idealism and moral forces drawn from whence they can'. When we consider the forces, knowledge and supernatural virtues which were necessary to establish the Christian City, and the sufferings of millions of martyrs, and the light given by the Fathers and Doctors of the Church, and of the self-sacrifice of all the heroes of charity, and a powerful hierarchy ordained in heaven, and the streams of Divine Grace - the whole having been built up, bound together, and impregnated by the life and spirit of Jesus Christ, the Wisdom of God, the Word made man - when we think, I say, of all this, it is frightening to behold new apostles eagerly attempting to do better by a common interchange of vague idealism and civic virtues. What are they going to produce ? What is to come out of this collaboration ? A mere verbal and chimerical construction in which we see, glowing in a jumble, and in seductive confusion, the words of Liberty, Justice, Fraternity, Love,Equality and human exlatation, all resting upon an ill-understood human dignity." - Saint Pius X, Our Apostolic Mandate, letter on the "Sillon", August 25, 1910.
I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us what this Pope Saint 'reeeeeaaallly meant.'
To: pascendi
First you write this:
As for the last quote provided regarding indifferentism: the pope does very well here upholding the one path to salvation, which is the Catholic Church. In fact, I could provide for you, if you wish, quotes which are even more precise and pointed than this, coming from Pope John Paul II.
Then you write this:
As indifferentism and syncretism are pandemic in our times, and given that you have claimed that he has repeatedly spoken against these things: I ask you, marshmallow, in the name of Dialogue and Respect, to provide for me more quotes or example, that I may come to know the truth which you possess.
In the first papragraph you say that you can provide more quotes, if required. In the second you ask me to provide them.
Which leads me ask; If you already have them, why do you want me to post them? You've admitted that many more exist and offered to post them. Fine by me.
I think those which I quoted are rather good and make my point effectively. They are clear and unambiguous and leave little room for wiggle.
Which is why the best response you can muster is to cry "not enough, not enough". A bit like when your kid brother bets you that you can't hop on one foot for 5 minutes. When you do it, he can't bring himself to say "good job", so he says "OK, bet you can't do it again."
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson