[Destro]

Following the death of its founder [Herbert W. Armstrong], The Worldwide Church of God dropped British- Israelism and other unorthodox beliefs in 1995. The Church's officialweb page states: "We have worked hard to inform our own members about where we went wrong," and they apologize for having "taught...erroneous doctrines [like British-Israelism]."

[Destro]

bump

[GeronL]

since the Japanese, too, are Israelites (as "samurai" sounds like "Samaria"

If that is their level of reasoning they would be as scary as liberals.

[Zack Attack]

It is therefore evident that the terms "Jew" and "Israel" are interchangeable. If Jesus Christ is only "King of the Jews" (the tribe of Judah only) in Matthew 27:37, then He is not the one that is the Messiah.

Scripturally, "Jew" and "Israel" are not interchangeable and one must recognize the context the terms are used in. Jew or Y'hudim can be referring to the descendants of Judah, son of Jacob. It can also refer to residents of the land called Judea, or the people of the southern kingdom, irregardless of tribe of birth. Israel can be referring to persons of the northern kingdom of Israel, yet also to the combined houses of Judah and Israel, as in house of Jacob/Israel.

While Judah received the royal lineage, it was Ephraim who received the double portion blessing of the firstborn, and along with that, it was they who maintained the name of their father, Israel.

There were indeed many who were in the northern kingdom or were of the other 10 tribes, who did recognize the errors of Israel and relocated south in Judah. There is not a perfect division of tribes between north and south.

I do disagree with British Israelism and it's aspects of replacement theology, however there is a much deeper truth to all this. The larger part of Israel has never returned. Their numbers now are not as numerous as the sand of the sea. Most Orthodox Jews today are aware that they are awaiting a lost brother to come home. This is what Messiah Yeshua was speaking of when he gave the parable of the prodigal son.

[fishtank]

Duke McVeigh Armstrong Smith BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[William Terrell]

One theory against another. Most of this stuff I never heard of.

Many events that happened centuries BC are obscured by time, and so we are left with plausible conjecture. I noticed that there is no more concrete proof in the above than found on the other side.

I'm interested in what became of the northern kingdom. Reasonable extrapolation from Biblical numbers indicates there were millions of them. It is known that they escaped from the Assyrians and there is no evidence that several millions returned to the homeland.

It doesn't ring true to me that they were absorbed by other peoples.

If you're not a believer in God and His word, the Bible, this stuff means nothing beyond a simple anthropological debate. If you believe in God and His word, you have to note Hosea 1:10, 11.

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

I find no fulfillment of this prophesy in the Bible or otherwise. There are a number of implications in these two verses that are unavoidable in the plain words.

First, there are, or will be, a huge numbers. World Judaism is probably four or five million. Much has to be added to that to fit the prophecy.

The prophecy mentions two distinct groups, according to old grouping of the northern and southern kingdoms. The were apart, then they got together. They will appoint one leader, presumably from Judah, since Judah is the royal house, and their remnants are the Jews we know today, so a Jew will be the chosen leader.

For the combined Israel to be so vast and populous today, they must have been vastly populous in the time between then and today. Vast population isn't grown on trees; look at the remnants of Judah. They kept their identity and are still represent small numbers.

I doubt very seriously that the Brits replaced the Jews in God's eyes as the royal clan. The Jews are the only remnant of the covenant that we are sure of.

However, there have to a lot more existing, today, and that being true, all must be brothers to the existing Jews, not enemies or vying for the "throne".

Why, in your mind, does there have to be one or the other, mutually exclusive? Hell, for all we know from the shards remaining from ancient history, most of the world's population may be Israelite descended. That'd sure burn up all these strawmen, wouldn't it?

When one becomes emotional about a thing, that means that thing is goring someone's ox. What's your ox, that is to say, what's you stake in this debate? I don't buy it's for cold archaeological or anthropolicial theory. You're much too red in the face.

The fact is that all people that accept Christ and His laws in their hearts are part of "God's chosen people", regardless of whither came they. So what's the big deal? You figure that people will think that the Brits are the read sept of Israel and murder all the Jews?

[D Edmund Joaquin]

A lot of the British are Romans, therefore Kittim, therefore Esau.

[ladyinred]

This is a particularly disgusting doctrine IMO.

[Thinkin' Gal]

"Berith" is Hebrew for the word "Covenant" while "Ish" is Hebrew for "man". If you join the two, British Israelists claim you obtain the word "British" which means "men of the Covenant". There is, however, no significant relationship between Hebrew and English.

That's a clever word play but the literal is much more inviting. The United States - in Hebrew - is artzot habrit... an alliance/union of states, that is "lands of the covenant"? Melo hagoyim indeed. A doubly fruitful double ash heap, as it were.

And lest we forget, Paul wrote to the Romans,

Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

>St.Paul's is the only cathedral in London built by a single architect (Christopher Wren) and the only cathedral with a dome. Its dome is the second largest in the world, after St.Peter's in the Vatican.<

Don't take photos and don't forget to remove your hat... you wouldn't want to violate the sanctity of the place.

[SunkenCiv]

Just bumping this topic into the list, not sending a distribution. I'm glad I found this, and thanks to Destro for posting it. There are a number of "lost tribes" topics from this week, and I wanted to make sure this got in.

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