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To: nmh
Rituals do NOT save anyone.

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the last supper?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the crucifixion?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the resurrection?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of making the mud paste to put on the blind man's eyes?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the baptism?

Then why did Jesus command us to go through all these rituals and say that we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven or have life in us if we do not?

He was and is God almighty, and could have just done all these things without rituals, BUT HE DIDN'T.

Then why did Jesus not just do it all YOUR way?

Why? Because He was trying to save us from lazy, wretched, human foolishness, and, in SOME CASES, it worked.
74 posted on 08/12/2004 11:40:03 AM PDT by broadsword (Liberalism is the societal AIDS virus that thwarts national defense.)
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To: broadsword
Rituals have the purpose of teaching us lessons and making those lessons a part of us, not of having saving power in and of themselves. Consider all of the Torah sacrificial and feastday rituals--every single one of them pointed to Jesus Christ. None of them saved the person performing them from sin; even in the OT, it was faith which was counted as righteousness. (Gen. 15:6 or 7, IIRC)

The point of instituting the ritual of the Communion was not to create a magical rite that would have any power in and of itself, but to illustrate that we must accept the sacrifice of Christ's body and blood, and make Him a part of us as much as food becomes a part of us when it is eaten.

It was precisely this sort of legalistic approach that Jesus condemned in such fiery terms in Matt. 23. Salvation is by grace (a gift) received by faith, not by works that we could boast about, as Paul pointed out in Romans, Ephesians, and Galatians.

122 posted on 08/12/2004 12:48:12 PM PDT by Buggman ("You can't tell a deaf Chinaman anything by whispering in French." --Protagoras)
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To: broadsword

Rituals do NOT save anyone! They never have and they never will.

I KNOW what Communion is HOWEVER it is NOT a requirement to be saved. Christ clarified that on the cross. He told the thief next to him, he would be with Him in paradise. Thief was NOT baptized, nor did he have communion. So unless Christ is a liar(unlikely) this should clarify that Communion is NOT a requirement for eternal life.


138 posted on 08/12/2004 1:07:14 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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To: broadsword

Me: Rituals do NOT save anyone.

YOu: Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the last supper?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the crucifixion?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the resurrection?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of making the mud paste to put on the blind man's eyes?

Then why did Jesus go through the ritual of the baptism?

Then why did Jesus command us to go through all these rituals and say that we will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven or have life in us if we do not?

He was and is God almighty, and could have just done all these things without rituals, BUT HE DIDN'T.

Then why did Jesus not just do it all YOUR way?

Why? Because He was trying to save us from lazy, wretched, human foolishness, and, in SOME CASES, it worked.

Me: The RITUALS Jesus performed or asked other to carry out do NOT save anyone. Jesus looks at your heart. If you don't know the answers to the questions you posed to me, you seriously need to speak to someone Biblically literate. The answers you seek tell me you really don't understand why Christ did what He did for us on the cross.

Do you think pedophile Priests are "saved" because they partake in Communion and were baptized? If so, then by golly we should all follow these rituals so we can be "saved". Have you read the Bible? Seen the hypocrisy shown through performing rituals where their heart was not in it? It's all over the Bible. Youre best bet is to read the Bible instead of letting others misguide you. I wouldn't trust mere fallible mortals with where I will stand in eternity.

Seriously, one more time RITUALS do NOT save anyone. It is what is in your heart that determines that.


154 posted on 08/12/2004 1:17:03 PM PDT by nmh (Intelligent people recognize Intelligent Design (God).)
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