Posted on 08/12/2004 10:41:10 AM PDT by sidewalk
BRIELLE, N.J. -- An 8-year-old girl who suffers from a rare digestive disorder and cannot consume wheat has had her first Holy Communion declared invalid because the wafer contained none, violating Catholic doctrine. Now, Haley Waldman's mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition _ celiac sprue disease _ should not exclude her from participating in the sacrament, in which Roman Catholics eat consecrated wheat-based wafers to commemorate the last supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion.
(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...
It was the Church which was commissioned by Christ to teach all nations. It was the Church which accordinly collected the Scriptures and determined what was canonical and what was apocryphal. And while the Church might elaborate its understanding of a particular doctrine it has inherited, it has always understood it was not at liberty to add or subtract one iota from the truths it had been given by Christ Himself--as some on this thread would so casually do--and these are the same truths repeated by Trent and the decrees of the popes that have been handed-down from Christ, through the apostles, through their successors, to us in our own day. Were we to depart from this Tradition and adhere to Scripture alone, we would very quickly corrupt that process and lose the meanings Christ Himself had intended. It is our tradition which gives such doctrines life. This is why Catholics insist that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, for instance. Not because common sense tells us this, but because this is what Christ himself intended, and this is the sense transmitted through the early Church Fathers, and so on through the ages. So we don't reject Scripture--but neither do we reject Tradition.This is consistent with Jesus who respected the Mosaic tradition, which was from God.
Sorry, but I just couldn't imagine denying communion to a faithful child with an affliction such as this.
I was wondering about that. The story didn't quite make sense for some reason.
I don't care if she's Catholic as long as she can worship the Lord Jesus. But critizing the mother when she is trying to find a solution to her problem to worship in her faith?!? That's pathetic. And if you think that's exploitation, then you love your religion more than the believers.
A miracle that her daughter cannot participate in. What would you have her do? Sit there and watch everyone else participate and listen while she's told that her sins can never be cleansed?
That is NOT what the article says and that is NOT what the policy is that was posted by NYer in post 30 something. Her mother is not being anal retentive. She went to a priest, the priest performed something, and the Diocese invalidated what the priest did because it did not conform to church law. You can't blame the mother.
So.....If Hitler were alive, and running for office?
What is that saying about For Evil to Triumph...?
You replied to tell me this? Why are you even bothering to involve yourself in a discussion if you don't respond to the arguments I pose?
Jesus didn't lie. He cannot lie. If you keep insisting that baptism or communion is a requirement for eternal life, then you are calling Jesus a liar.
Please. It is you who ignores the plain words of Scripture and the constant teaching of Christianity.
"Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (St. John iii.5).
"He that believeth and is baptized, shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned" (St. Mark xvi.16).
"Furthermore NONE of you have addressed this problem of Jesus NOT requiring rituals to go to heaven. NONE of you. You completley ignore this."
No! - you are the one who has consistently ignored the scriptural injunctions of Our Lord to receive the Sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist - the Holy Mysteries of Grace which you oh-so-snidely deride as mere "rituals".
It is Christ Himself who has chosen these means of giving us His grace - of allowing us to participate in His very life. To deride them and to set yourself up as arbiter of what is needed for salvation is to reject Christ and the work He has done for us.
"Eternal life is a gift. You cannot earn it. You will never be worthy of it. It's free and it's by the grace of God that it is offered to you."
None of us dispute this - the Sacraments are not ways of "earning" salvation - they are the free and unmerited gift and work of Jesus Christ on our behalf.
"If you keep insisting that baptism or communion is a requirement for eternal life, then you are calling Jesus a liar."
No! You make Jesus a liar by wishing away his teaching:
"Whosoever shall believe and be baptised will be saved."
"Unless you shall eat my flesh and drink my blood, you shall not have life in you."
"Yes, He would LIKE us to all be baptized and take commununion etc. however if your heart is NOT sincere there is not point to you doing these rituals."
We do not disagree with this!!! To participate in any of the Sacraments, the Christian must be properly disposed in Faith, Hope and Love otherwise they do indeed become meaningless ritual.
This is the basic requisite of all Catholic teaching for our life with God. If you were Catholic you would know this - but you would rather instruct us on the administration of Christ's Sacraments without the first idea of what Catholics believe.
Try doing a little research before you spout forth your straw men in ignorance.
Just as the thief on the cross was NOT required to be baptized or required to take communion, neither is anyone else to be saved. Eternal life is a gift. You cannot earn it. You will never be worthy of it. It's free and it's by the grace of God that it is offered to you. It is Christ who lived the perfect life for us since we are not capable of that. It is Christ who loved us so much that He took on the punishment that ALL of us deserve, even your pope, so that through belief/faith/trust in Him we would be able to seek Eternal Life. The wages of sin are death and Jesus is a ransom for many. The least we can do is to follow His teachings and not pervert them as the Priests in the Bible frequently did - ritual driven and concerned about appearances but their heart was NOT right with God.
Jesus didn't lie. He cannot lie. If you keep insisting that baptism or communion is a requirement for eternal life, then you are calling Jesus a liar. Either these rituals are required or they are not. It is one or the other. The rules if you will, are the same for ALL mere mortals.
That man on the cross is with Him in heaven. To suggest that baptism and other rituals are a requirement for eternal life is legalistic requirement of man. It is perverted God's Word - just as the hypocritical Jewish Priests did. God would like us to be baptized and take communion however to not do so is not damming you to hell. People that are ritually driven won't be in heaven if their heart is not sincere. It is your HEART, LOVE and BELIEF that He clamors for.
Jesus loves you, so what is all fuss about. Have a great day.
It was not the tradition of Moses he approved of, but the law Moses received from God in the Ten Commandments....Jesus never followed tradition, example...he healed on Sabbath day, something that had never been allowed before.
Jesus said " I have come to REDEEM YOU FROM THE CURSE OF THE LAW", just what law do you think that was? It wasn't the Ten Commandments...it was the laws of traditon created by man which judged anyone who didn't do things their way.
And so that people would know there was forgiveness and healing and deliverance for every sin, sickness and imperfection of the human condition, thank you.
I guess the only conclusion one can deduce from your post is that you are a moral relativist. You self interpret Scripture, reject the only Church founded and guided by Christ to lead all to salvation and make yourself a god. In short, your primitive theology allows you to place yourself above Christ. No thanks, I will stick with the Truth.
On the contrary, when you put 'extra-biblical' dogma (such a stupid thing as the contents of the wafer) in the way of a childs 'communion' with our Lord, then you have done exactly that - made a 'little god' out of legalistic mumbo-jumbo, forgetting the meaning of Jesus's message. In no way does this 'obey Christ'.
Stop it. The Catholic is the only Church founded by Christ. Those who reject Her reject Christ.
Please, don't preach to the non-Catholic Christians about "moral" anything .... The RCC has no leg to stand on their. Although your patronizing comment is accepted for what it is, it does promote your faith one bit.
Protestantism is a heresy. The Catholic Church Is full of sinners, yet sinless. Can you say with a straight face you and your "Church" pals are better than others? Hypocrisy does not promote the faith you claim to believe in.
I am not seeing Jesus in your words but rather simple "my church is right and your's is wrong", something that is quite reminescent of the pharisee and publican at church in prayer.
Truth is hate, to those who hate truth.
He is alive, He is NOT on the Crucifix.
You crucify Him each time you attack His Church.
Words are cheap, actions are much more believable .. And of late the RCC has been quite void.
Christ's words are not cheap.
Your faith is between you and God, I will pray for your enlightenment as I do hope you do likewise for me.
I am Catholic because it is true. I will pray for you. I pray you stop attacking His Church.
Sad, thank goodness there are other RCC representatives that show a more loving church .. if you were the average representative of the RCC, Rome would have fallen a long time ago!! ;-)
End of line ...
"Yes - even a small particle of wheat can kill a person with celiac disease."
Can you provide a reference? Celiac, like all disorders, comes in degrees. If every suffer could die from the smallest particle then every case would be fatal. What happens when a celiac sufferer kisses someone who just ate a piece of bread. A small particle caught between teeth is transferred? Do they die?
As far as I am aware celiac is not a delayed type hypersensitivity disease.
Hmm, you and your fellow attackers bash the Church, I call you on it and I am the bad guy? You have received many reasons and proofs here. You continue to be a detractor. Behavior begets behavior, friend.
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