Conservative Catholic groups share reverence for doctrinal orthodoxy

The Dallas Morning News (found at Newsday.com web site) ^ | July 29, 2004 | usan Hogan/Albach

[Convert from ECUSA]

"Once a week, Ken and Darcy Maggio head to a beautiful old church with five children in tow, for what they consider a beautiful old service, the Latin Mass. The worshipping community isn't a parish, but among the handful of emerging conservative Catholic groups to establish roots in the Dallas Diocese. ... Many are drawing young Catholics like the Maggios, who are in their 30s. "We've discovered a treasure in the church we didn't know existed," said Ken Maggio of Dallas, an engineering manager at Texas Instruments."

[Convert from ECUSA]

I keep seeing articles over the past few years which indicate that more and more 30-somethings are leaning toward doctrinal orthodoxy and the Latin Mass. Or as I say, "this isn't your parents/grandparents Mass." For which these 30-somethings at the non-hootenany Masses must surely be thankful.

[AAABEST]

"hootenany"....lol.

[B Knotts]

I think a lot of people my age and younger are discovering that the previous generation threw out a lot of what was good in the liturgy in their attempt at "reform."

I got a taste of just how bad it can get out there. I attended a Mass in the Bay Area that I'm not even sure was valid. They used the Gloria as an entrance hymn, and completely omitted the Penitential Rite! And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I suspect that this stuff is the rule, rather than the exception.

[Convert from ECUSA]

:) I called it that when I was still Anglican and schmoozing with my Catholic buddies! You all call them "Kumbaya-masses" (such "masses" never merit the proper upper case "M")! Back in the late 60s and early 70s when I was a teenager at the Baptist church I grew up in, every "youth Sunday" they'd allow "youth music." Hootenany all the way! Even then, at 14-17, it made me green. Then they'd have the organist and choir sing Dylan's "Blowing in the Wind." Yep, its true. During that time period I started drifting away from God, and that stuff just sped the drift up. In college I started reading C.S. Lewis' writings, and that was how God brought me to my adult conversion in 1977.

I figure when I'm old and grayer than I am now, the 1968 generation in the Church will have died off/retired/whatever, and sanity will return.

[NYer]

The groups are the legacy of Pope John Paul II, who has thrown his support behind their emphases on doctrinal orthodoxy and traditional piety.

God Bless Pope John Paul II

[NYer]

The groups are the legacy of Pope John Paul II, who has thrown his support behind their emphases on doctrinal orthodoxy and traditional piety.

God Bless Pope John Paul II

[pascendi]

If that's true, then traditional Catholics are the legacy of John Paul II.

[Fast Ed97]

I really enjoy a reverent novus ordo Mass- and I even prefer guitar masses if the musicians are skilled and the sound is mixed properly. However, I am tempted to go a Latin Mass because of the new innovations that seem to permeate to even the "conservative parishes":

1. Orans position for laity (looks really stupid)
2. Consecrated hosts distributed in glass salad bowls and precious blood distributed in Libby Water Goblets.
3. Childrens liturgy.
4. Priest envious women (and some men) who have a fetish with "helping out" at the altar.
5. Altar girls in flip-flops.
6. One EMHC for every 20 parishioners.
7. Referencing every activity in the parish as a "ministry". Last week our parish was selling vegetables grown in the church garden to raise funds- to which the priest called "Garden Ministry".

[Dominick]

This is an indult Mass, and if people enjoy it great. The nice thing is these people say what they prefer, without tearing down the Novus Ordo.

It goes round and around and when the commentary of the article comes out here, it is used to slap the Novus Ordo Mass. Nothing in the original article did what some do here.

[Pyro7480]

I keep seeing articles over the past few years which indicate that more and more 30-somethings are leaning toward doctrinal orthodoxy and the Latin Mass. Or as I say, "this isn't your parents/grandparents Mass." For which these 30-somethings at the non-hootenany Masses must surely be thankful.

There isn't just 30-somethings at TLM's! There are also people in their late teens and 20's who have sought it out. I'm 24, and I've been only attending the indult TLM for a year now. I love it!

[Desdemona]

Referencing every activity in the parish as a "ministry". Last week our parish was selling vegetables grown in the church garden to raise funds- to which the priest called "Garden Ministry".

Doesn't that drive you crazy? That is rampant everywhere you look.

Seriously, I've been overseas the last few weeks and I happened to be at Westminster Cathedral in London for Vespers in Latin (Gregorian Chant by a great choir a cappella) - why did we ever change? That was a taste of Heaven.

[ELS]

Did you know that, according to Canon Law, the only music that can be played over a church's PA system (assuming it has a PA system) is Gregorian Chant?

[Desdemona]

Did you know that, according to Canon Law, the only music that can be played over a church's PA system (assuming it has a PA system) is Gregorian Chant?

No, I didn't. But with chant, you shouldn't need a PA system.

[Convert from ECUSA]

Understood. Thirty-somethings and younger! It ain't youir parents/grandparents Mass (to modify the Oldsmobile ad of a decade or so ago). Maybe it is your great-grandparents Mass! At any rate, this almost 50-year old convert to Catholicism is delighted to see the trend in the article and hopes it will continue. You young orthodox types are a blessing to us "semi-young fogies" (a take of on "fr." Greeley's bemoaning of all the "young fogies" in the Church some months ago).

[Salvation]

Amen!

[sinkspur]

I attended a Mass in the Bay Area that I'm not even sure was valid. They used the Gloria as an entrance hymn, and completely omitted the Penitential Rite!

Was there a baptism at the Mass? If so, that is standard practice, and entirely in keeping with the GIRM.

[sinkspur]

Interesting. Not a word on the thread about the Neocatechumenal Way, which is ten times the size of the Traditional Latin Mass Movement in Dallas.

[B Knotts]

Was there a baptism at the Mass? If so, that is standard practice, and entirely in keeping with the GIRM.

Yes, there was a baptism. But wouldn't there have had to have been blessing and sprinkling of water to replace the Kyrie or Confiteor?

Here are some of the other things I saw at this Mass:

• There was no Trinitarian greeting.
• The Homily was given from within the aisle.
• The people remained seated for the prayer at the end of the Preparation of the Gifts.
• The people stood for the entire Eucharistic Prayer, including the Consecration.
• Glass vessels were used for the Precious Blood.
• An army of extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion was used, despite having three priests listed in the parish bulletin.
• The extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion stood in the sanctuary during the Agnus Dei.
• A layman divided the consecrated Hosts into patens after the Agnus Dei.

[B Knotts]

Also, they started the Mass with a "meet and greet your neighbor."

That despite the fact that there was already a loud din in the nave prior to the Mass starting, with people talking loudly. It was like being in a gymnasium for a basketball game.

[sinkspur]

But wouldn't there have had to have been blessing and sprinkling of water to replace the Kyrie or Confiteor?

No. The greeting at the entrance to the church takes the place of the entire penitential rite. Also, the Profession of Faith during the Baptism takes the place of the Creed.

Did you have a notebook with you?