Posted on 08/02/2004 8:21:41 AM PDT by CatherineSiena
Edited on 08/02/2004 12:08:38 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
It's hard to miss Father Marcos Gonzalez, who wears an ankle-length black cassock every day, a garment most priests tossed out decades ago. But it's not just his clothes that bespeak an older, more traditional era of his Roman Catholic Church.
When some priests spoke in favor of optional celibacy at a Los Angeles priest assembly last year — a position supported by most American Catholics today — Gonzalez booed in dissent. In premarital counseling, he tells couples to remain chaste until marriage, plunging into delicate territory some priests prefer to avoid. Gonzalez also believes artificial birth control and gay sex are always a sin and opposes women's ordination.
Such stances conform with Vatican teachings, he says, but are at odds with many American priests and lay people.
Yet Gonzalez, an associate pastor at St. Andrew Church in Pasadena, is hardly a relic from a fading past. At 41, he offers one glimpse of the future as a member of a new breed of younger priests ordained during the 25-year papacy of Pope John Paul II and passionately committed to the pope's orthodox teachings.
As the health of John Paul — now 84 and the third-longest serving pontiff in history — continues to falter, men like Gonzalez stand ready to guard and propagate his legacy. They represent a global trend toward Christian orthodoxy, in contrast to a generation of more liberal priests ordained during the 1960s reforms of the Second Vatican Council.
"We are very, very faithful to the Holy Father and not in any way dissenting from the teachings of the church," Gonzalez says of like-minded colleagues.
The emergence of these young conservatives has set off a flurry of studies, books and debate about what effect they will have on the nation's 62 million Roman Catholics, its largest religious denomination.
(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...
I hold no animosity towards any catholic who seeks a reverent "catholic" liturgy. It is for that reason that I have continuously posted the link to the the 22 different liturgies that make up the Western and Eastern Rites of the Catholic Church. I do have a problem, however, with those who claim to be catholic, and have the opportunity to attend one of those 22 liturgies, but defer to attending mass at an SSPX Chapel. In so doing, they have removed themselves from the Magisterium. There is absolutely no excuse when, in their own community, there are other options that include a very orthodox and reverent 'in communion with Rome' liturgy.
There seems to be so much focus on the "Old Latin Mass". Recall that Jesus Christ was a Jew. As Mel Gibson suggested in his film, there is a strong possibility that Jesus understood and spoke Latin; ultimately, however, his native tongue was Aramaic.
It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms "Christian" and "Catholic" were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues.
To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms.
As most of us realize, the Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in the Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated.
Hence my inability to understand why the great emphasis on the old Latin Mass, when there is something far closer to the liturgy instituted by our Lord. If someone can explain this to me, I would be most appreciative. I grew up with the Old Latin Mass. Had I been exposed to the Maronite liturgy back then, I would have embraced it over the Latin Rite.
Padre Pio and the Novus Ordo Missae
He was a model of respect and submission towards his religious and ecclesiastical superiors, especially during the time when he was persecuted. Nonetheless, he could not remain silent over a deviation that was baneful to the Church. Even before the end of the Council, in February 1965, someone announced to him that soon he would have to celebrate the Mass according to a new rite, ad experimentum, in the vernacular, which had been devised by a conciliar liturgical commission in order to respond to the aspirations of modern man. Immediately, even before seeing the text, he wrote to Paul VI to ask him to be dispensed from the liturgical experiment, and to be able to continue to celebrate the Mass of Saint Pius V. When Cardinal Bacci came to see him in order to bring the authorization, Padre Pio let a complaint escape in the presence of the Pope's messenger: "For pity sake, end the Council quickly."
The same year, during the conciliar euphoria that was promising a new springtime to the Church, he confided to one of his spiritual sons: "In this time of darkness, let us pray. Let us do penance for the elect"; and especially for the one who has to be their shepherd here below: All his life, he immolated himself for the reigning pope, whose photograph was among the rare images that decorated his cell.
One day, some confreres were discussing with the Father Definiteur General [The counselor or adviser to the general or provincial of a religious order -Ed.] the problems in the Order, when Padre Pio, taking a shocked attitude, cried out, with a distant look in his eye: "What in the world are you up to in Rome? What are you scheming? You even want to change the Rule of Saint Francis!" The Definiteur replied: "Padre, changes are being proposed because the youth don't want to have anything to do with the tonsure, the habit, bare feet...."
"Chase them out! Chase them out! What can you be saying? Is it they who are doing Saint Francis a favor by taking the habit and following his way of life, or rather, isn't it Saint Francis who is offering them a great gift?"
http://www.sspx.ca/Communicantes/Oct2002/Padre_Pio_Spirituality.htm
The New Order Mass is not a matter of Fidelity to doctrine. When the Mass changed, Padre Pio wrote to the Holy Father offering his support in the changes and turned his altar around just before his death September 23, 1968.
Padre Pio offered the New Mass of Pope Paul VI, on a table, facing the congregation. Why? Because "it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff" (Unam Sanctam, 1302, Pope Boniface VIII). "He who obeys the whole law, yet offends in one point, is guilty in all." (James 2:10) In "Cum muta sint" Pope Saint Leo XIII, 1882, states that one is sinning who appeals to past or future popes in order to justify being disobedient to the authority of the present Pope, "since the Church is One, her Head is One, her Government is One."
What saddens me the most is when the Holy Father needs the help of conservative Catholics, (those who understand and who love the Mass), they leave the Church. They leave him to the wolves, the heretics, the modernists. When Christ needed them the most, they left Him. These people in the Traditional movements are so much like me, that I want them fighting with me, but inside the Church not outside.
from Richard P. Salbato's The Old Latin Mass
Kind of like a Heinz 57 or Baskin and Robbin's 31 flavors, huh?
Are you drunk?
There have been multiple rites in the Catholic Church for a thousand years.
Salbato's a liar.
The Vatican can't even find the good saint's body anymore; that's how quick God whisked him into heaven.
Where did that come from? Thunderbird?
Are you saying, on this forum, that Padre Pio was assumed into heaven?
Please. You're not one to talk, after some of the relentless anti-trad nonsense you've repeatedly posted here.
Remove the log from your eye.
Huh?? Frankly, I don't understand your attempt at humor, much less care. It is just as pointless as your purported arguments to support your attendance at SSPX chapels.
I am calling it quits for tonight. Tomorrow we (Father and a group of us) will be working after the Divine Liturgy, baking spinach pies, meat pies and kibbee, for this week's Food Festival. We are doing whatever needs to be done to raise money to renovate the old church.
I work full time during the week, raise a child, care for two dogs and a cat, clean the house, cook the meals, cart out the garbage, mow the lawn, dust, vaccuum, and attend to all of the other family chores commensurate with daily life. My weekends belong to my parish community, helping them grow and expand. How unfortunate that you lack the harmony of fidelity to the Holy Father. It is truly sad to meet so many 'traditionalists' who are filled with venom and animosity towards anyone who does not share their views. From the very first time I attended the Maronite liturgy, my life has been imbued with that tremendous sense of Christ's peace. Nothing you say, will ever shake it.
Such as?????
So who's left? Every bishop and cardinal, including the Bishop of Rome, has violated this one.
There have been multiple rites in the Catholic Church for just the past forty years: New Mass, Childrens' Mass, LifeTeen Mass, Clown Mass, Folk Mass, Polka Mass, Gay Mass, Earth Day Mass...
I'll make a deal with you. If I pull up 20 anti-Society posts, you must promise never to type "SSPX" again on this forum.
Deal?
What shook your faith in the Novus Ordo rite?
It's got to be whiskey.
You don't know a thing about Church history, obviously.
Shall it be Eucharistic Prayer I, II, III or IV? Pick your flavor.
Crown. I have better taste than you.
Dear pascendi,
It is one thing to experience the worship of God the Almighty, as the Catholic Church had done for centuries before; it is entirely different to lambaste every single thing the Church does now or the people who attend the Churches that do things that aren't entirely orthodox.
Fact is that most folks, and even most devout Catholic folks aren't interested in their patrimony. They attend Sunday mass out of devotion to God and their obligation. That's it. If, on the other hand, you have been graced by God to seek out the Tridentine mass through your study and understanding, and find it more appealing, as I do, then you should merely applaud it's attributes, not decry the deficiencies of any other rite.
Dear NYer,
Amen, amen. You are the best.
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