>> Under the guise of reaching the lost we are losing ourselves!<<
Some of us, probably. Others, maybe not. It is why prayer is so important. I know you know that, but I wanted you to know that I know it too.
All we can do is all we can do. Whenever I see topics like this, I am reminded of the rift between Paul and Barnabas over Mark in Acts 15:39. Sometimes sincere, prayerful, well meaning Christians simply disagree. It does not necessarily mean someone is doing the devils work.
OHHHHHHHHHH DEAR!!!!
THERE YOU GO AGAIN!
. . . being sensible . . . and correct!
Oh my!
You may find this a blessing:
Prayer Summary For April 14, 2005
Notice: The following information was taught and prayed about during Lynne Hammond's and Ray Kelly's early morning prayer session this morning.
Shared...
Romans 8:26—
KJV—Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought:bu the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which can not be uttered.
Wuest—The Spirit lends us a helping hand with reference to our weakness for the particular thing we should pray for according to what is necessary in the nature of the case, we do not know with an absolute knowledge....
New Life—The Holy Spirit prays to God for us with sounds that cannot be put into words.
NEB—We do not even know how we ought to pray (or, what it is right to pray for). But through our inarticulate groans the Spirit himself is pleading for us.
Jer—...for when we cannot choose words in order to pray properly, the Spirit himself express our plea in a way that could never be put into words.
Prayed...
We hunger for more of You
We decrease that you may increase
So much more; there's so much at stake
Change, change transformation
Go out beyond, into the realms of God, help from heaven
A furtherance; we contend for the furtherance
Shake it, shake it, shake it loose now; open
Move it over
Amend the breach through the blood of Jesus
Everyone see, signs, signs that reveal change, the right way
Signs that say go, turn
The rhema of the Word, move it
There's more in that place; there's a great application
Angelic forces, manifest the will, the manifested plan
Time to step over, over the threshold; the yoke is light
We esteem all the parts; shake loose of every weight, freedom
A showing and revealing; doorways are turning in the right direction
A recharging; a surge of power
Spirit of God, manifest yourself
Endurance to press forward; move, enter, enter, repair
open; eyes can see
Our ears can hear; we will not go back
We will stay steadfast
Holy Ghost connection
Taste it; we can taste it; motion; freedom
Internationally, a light
The message shaking every deterrent, shaking the enemy
Daylight—we can see the breakthrough now
It's out beyond our mind, beyond our eyes, it's the way of the Holy Ghost power
The free way has been made
Tongues With Interpretation...
So see, there is an easy way. It's called the Holy Ghost way. It's yielding yourself over to the Spirit fully, completely yielded to My Spirit. It's the way your walk will be. Easy. You will be able to choose the door to go through, or go around, or over if you need to, bouncing like a spring you will go and flow up over into my plan.
Entrance will come to you. Endurance will come to you and you will not move in your own strength but you will move in My power.
Disagreeing on pragmatic things is one thing -- disagreeing on major doctrines is another. That is why there are denominations. I found a great article (written from a Lutheran perspective however, so keep that in mind) at Truth on the Scaffold
That talks about hidden doctrines in 'neutral' methods. Excellent point. There is almost nothing totally neutral.
D. Denial of the Efficacy of the WordClearly the LCMS and WELS leaders do not trust in the Means of Grace, adopting instead the position of the Reformed, as will be detailed later. Even more importantly, they deny the doctrine of the efficacy of the Word, which is foundational for all Lutheran doctrine. There are only two positions possible about the Holy Spirit. One is clearly taught in the Bible, the Church Fathers, the Lutheran Reformation, Lutheran hymns, and the old Synodical Conference: the Spirit never works apart from the Word, the Word never works apart from the Spirit. (Isaiah 55:8-11) The other position, which Lutherans call Enthusiasm, separates the work of the Holy Spirit from the Word.
1. Pietism, Enthusiasm, Revivalism
Historically, the denial of the efficacy of the Word in Lutheranism has one primary starting point - a movement called Lutheran Pietism, started by Philip Spener and August Francke. It surfaced again in American Lutheranism in the 19th century, under the name of revivalism or New Measures. Enthusiasm has had its most recent and destructive impact in the Church Growth Movement, which has been adopted wholesale by the LCMS and WELS, as well as ELCA. Pietism, revivalism, and the Church Growth Movement have so much in common because all three deny the same doctrine of the efficacy of the Word.
2. Hidden Doctrines in Neutral Methods
All three movements (Pietism, revivalism, Church Growth) pretend to be non-doctrinal and therefore pose the greatest danger to Lutheranism. Lutheran doctrine will defeat any false doctrine, but Lutherans have trouble with a-doctrinal positions. When a false teacher says, "We are only giving you methods for helping your denomination grow," he is lying. The actual doctrines are deeply hidden and must be brought to light, just as anaerobic infections need air to be cured. If an anaerobic infection is not cut open and drained, blood poisoning will soon kill the hapless victim.
Those who claim to promote methods and not doctrines are secret unionists. Either they want all denominations in one visible church, or they have no love at all for pure doctrine. They slip away from any discussion about doctrine by flattering potential critics. One pastor said about a Church Growth leader, "It's easier to pick up soap in a shower than it is to find out what he really thinks." One unionist, who organized the ELCA/WELS/LCMS evangelism program, simply agrees with anyone who disagrees, leaving everyone confused.
No, brother, sometimes it doesn't.
But sometimes it does! (Gal.2:11-13)