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To: Gamecock; All; JockoManning; MamaDearest; auggy; fortheDeclaration; gracebeliever; 185JHP
It appears abundantly clear that you have born false witness against my quality Christian brother Rick Warren regarding RDL [bold and italics are Rick Warren's emphases. Color emphasis, by Qx]:

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From the RDL excerpted booklet WHAT ON EARTH AM I HERE FOR?

--Most readers would recognize the question in the title at the outset as the opposite of "all fluff."

p5 --It All Starts with God--first line, first subheading. It seems to me, that fluff would have been something like: "It all starts with Gamecock's teddy bear."

p5 --next line: It's not about you. Ahhhhhh, perhaps that's the problem. The truth is an affrontery to arrogance. Again, the opposite of fluff.

p5 --"Contrary to what many popular books, movies, and seminars tell you, you won't discover your life's meaning by looking within yourself.

Sounds more like the opposite of fluffery, to me.

Evidently Gamecock prefers that people be deluded by the fluffery of New Agey 'looking within.'

p6 --"You must begin with God, your Creator. You exist only because God wills that you exist. You were made by God and for God--and until you understand that, life will never make sense.It is only in God that we discover our origin, our identity, our meaning, our purpose, our significance, and our destiny. Every other path leads to a dead end."

Perhaps Gamecock disagrees with these absolutely foundational, starkly significant facts.

I consider those lines the opposite of fluff. I believe God considers them rather starkly significant statements by Rick Warren, too.

p6 --"Many people try to use God for their own self-actualization. They want God to be a personal 'genie' who serves their self-centered desires. But that is a reversal of nature and is doomed to failure. You were made for God, not vice versa, and life is about letting God use you for his purposes, not your using him for your own purposes."

Evidently Gamecock considers the New Age seduction of self-actualization to be a bit of fluffery to even discuss. Perhaps Gamecock believes that self-actualization is a wonderful focus since he's so reflexively hostile to Rick Warren's statements.

pp6, 7 --"I've read many books that suggest ways to discover the purpose of my life. All of them could be classified as 'self-help' books because they approach the subject from a self-centered viewpoint."

Obviously more fluffery from Gamecock's viewpoint. I hope he's not deluded that self-centered self-help books are Godly. But, maybe he does. He's soooo hostile to the meaty statements of Rick Warren.

But being successful and fulfilling your life's purpose are not at all the same issue! You could reach all your personal goals, becoming a raving success by the world's standard and still miss the purposes for which God created you. You need more than self-help advice. Jesus Christ once said, 'Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self.'" Mat 16:25

Perhaps Gamecock disagrees with Jesus Christ AND Rick Warren. Perhaps Gamecock believes that Rick Warren's agreement with Jesus Christ and Rick's emphasis of this point of Jesus' to be fluffery.

p7 --"This booklet is not about finding the right career, achieving your dreams, or planning your life. It is not about how to cram more activities into an overloaded schedule. Actually, knowing your purpose will allow you to do less in life--by focusing on what matters most. It is about becoming what God created you to be."

I guess Gamecock would prefer that nonbelievers stay focused on the opposite of what God created them to be. Focusing on what God wants nonbelievers to be must be more fluffery.

God have mercy. The whole booklet is full of such substance as emphasizing what God wants vs what selfish, shallow mankind's carnal appetites want. Perhaps Gamecock thinks that carnality is the opposite of fluffery.

Bearing false witness against Jesus Christ's very effective servant Rick Warren is NOT a Biblical, Christian, Godly thing to do.

120 posted on 04/11/2005 5:05:09 AM PDT by Quix (HAVING A FORM of GODLINESS but DENYING ITS POWER. 2 TIM 3:5)
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To: Quix
Dear Brother Quix,
I feel like i need to respond, but i am at a loss for words to your words, except for WOW!.

Since our copy of the book is not in the house, which my husband's Bible study group at work is using, i can't give you page and line, but one small but illustrative example of the problem as seen by many, is a statement where it is written that we can know all of God's Glory.......and the writer wasn't referring to Jesus, but knowing ALL about God....now that is a silly over simplification which, and this is the salient part, can lead people to the wrong conclusions. i always tell my Sunday school class that if they don't use Biblical language to describe God then they have erred. misrepresentation of God, even a small one, can lead to an extrapolation or drawing out of a wrong line of thinking. that is what is wrong. and these wrong lines obscure the simplicity of the Gospel. Now you can't know if these salvations were real or not, the 9200 accredited to Saddleback, but according to George Barna, in a recent study, a very small percent of recorded salvations have resulted in a discipled, enduring Christian. there may be a multiplicity of reasons for this, but the possibility that these were "stony soil" conversions is high. Now, i want you to have peace and be calm and know that no one is attacking anyone with malice, so no vitriol and generalized vituperation is called for here. it will ruin my day if you yell at me. every one is calm. thank you.
121 posted on 04/11/2005 6:17:23 AM PDT by bperiwinkle7 ( In the beginning was the WORD,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
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To: Quix
This little hissy fit you just pitched is most impressive, even by your own standards.

Your ad homs regarding my walk with the Risen Saviour does nothing but validate my thoughts on the PDL.

Sola Scriptura! Read about it sometimes my easily deceived friend. At one time Christians died for that principle. Now you think that if someone doesn't fawn over the current fad in American Christianity they are blaspheming the Lord.




Shame on you.
132 posted on 04/11/2005 11:56:38 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Screw the truth into men's minds." Richard Baxter)
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To: Quix

Thank you Quix.

JM


137 posted on 04/11/2005 2:29:10 PM PDT by JockoManning (www.biblegateway.com)
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To: Quix
quality Christian brother Rick Warren

Quality? I guess we are now creating a double-tier Christian class? Quality-Christian and Average-Christian? What happened to the Scriptural "all my righteousness is like dirty rags?"

Sounds more like the opposite of fluffery, to me.

Ok so where's the call to repent from your sin in all that? Where is the warning that ONLY JESUS can deliver you out of your BONDAGE to sin and save you from your natural destination of Hell.

Jesus Christ once said, 'Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self.'" Mat 16:25

Actually no, he said (in context) "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

(emphasis added) Does he ever speak about 'finding oneself'? that's New Age psychobabble.

You really need to read Deceived on Purpose by Warren Smith. It will take you step by step through the tons of errors included in Rick's teaching. This is NOT a good book. It is not even fit to 'pick and choose' from. It's like picking meat off a dead carcass. Go to the real meat, the Scriptures, and DON'T use the corrupt Message paraphrase. It is full of new age terminology and compromise on the idea of sin and repentance. Just search for the words like "sin" "judgement" and "evil" in the keyword search engine, and the Message translation, which Warren so heartily endorses, at www.bible.gospelcom.net and then look at each verse in context - and THEN switch over to another REAL translation (e.g. King James, even New KJ, NASB or NIV) and see how different the ideas are. You can also do it backward - look those words up in one of those translations and then switch over to see how the Message translates it. It's abominably poor work, if he meant to do it honestly at all.

180 posted on 04/11/2005 8:05:10 PM PDT by Terriergal (What is the meaning of life?? Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy him for ever.)
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