Posted on 07/26/2004 1:57:27 PM PDT by Lasher
Would like to know if there are any other Christians out there that have not swallowed Rick Warren's version of the Gospel. I left my "seeker-friendly" Church after much prayer and ponder, and it took several months to make the split. I still must speak with my former pastor about this, so until I do, I will not name my former Church. I have noticed that most who follow the "Purpose Driven" material are emotionally attached to it, much like true Christians are emotionally tied to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I am wondering, those that think this book is dangerous, to what denomination does your church belong.
And likewise, to those defending the book I ask the same question.
I am seeking to identify any paterns here.
>>Like Peter.<<
I would say "Unlike Peter".
>>I would say "Unlike Peter".<<
In what way, keeping in mind, if they are still alive, their story is not yet complete.
JESUS SAID those not against Him were with Him when the disciples started finding fault with those not doing it quite to their prissy standards. Jesus rebuked them soundly.
I am referencing the paragraph you posted ( I can see your tag line). I am familiar with this text but would like to see verses posted, many people on the free republic are not familiar with The Bible...they are cino. Thanks.
Actually, ... there are (2) references that you may want to look at ...
The first is similar to what Quix is saying ...Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.A good comparative reference follows ... one might struggle in rationalizing it with the first ...
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.Luke 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
>>(Acts4:32)
Life of the Christians
The community of believers were of one heart and one mind.None of them ever claimed anything as his own;rather,everything was held in common.<<
I use that scripture to point out to people that the early Christian church was among the first communists. Even they failed at it. It ignores human nature - even Christian humans. Like the old bumper sticker says, Christians are not perfect, just forgiven.
All of our attempts are flawed, even PDL. But there's nothing wrong with TRYING to please God. After all, it is completely irrelevant to salvation. 8^>
When our Lord Jesus asked Peter who He was there was no hesitation with Peter, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God". (Matt 16:16)
In John 8 you have those who wish to tag along until the message becomes difficult to hear much like the seed that gets thrown on the rocky soil. In Peter's case you have someone who doesn't need to be told what he already knows; he simply proclaims. Peter never "disbelieve". He was only unfaithful for the moment which our Lord Jesus predicted.
Did any of the first group become part of the second group? I don't know but I doubt it.
>>At the beginning of John 8 it says "many believed". By the end of John 8 these same "believers" were ready to stone our Lord Jesus. The simple change over them was Jesus stating who and what He was.<<
IOW they weren't really believers. That is the crux here.
>> Did any of the first group become part of the second group? I don't know but I doubt it.<<
I agree, except I leave out the words "but I doubt it." In fact, I suspect many of them did become "true" believers. The Bible is chock full of "message by example" for us readers to follow. But it doesn't always tell "the rest of the story," like the "final" death of Lazarus.
I can't remember in there what the exact quote is, but he does address this. He talks about how sin cannot exist in a vacuum... sin is always a corruption of what was once good by doing it in a manner it was not intended to be done. since all things originate with God, sin or Satan has no creative power. All he has is destructive (corruptive) power.
So it stands to reason that pleasure (of all forms) is a good thing, in the context for which God intended it. Outside of that it is a corruption, and sinful.
By the way I hear that same mantra chanted on TBN by all the false teachers on there. They constantly denigrate the 'religious folk' and poo poo 'doctrine' while teaching their own false doctrines, calling them 'teachings' instead of doctrines, as if the name is what matters.
As for the prophets: My heart is broken within me, All my bones tremble; I have become like a drunken man, Even like a man overcome with wine, Because of the LORD And because of His holy words.
For the land is full of adulterers; For the land mourns because of the curse. The pastures of the wilderness have dried up. Their course also is evil And their might is not right.
"For both prophet and priest are polluted; Even in My house I have found their wickedness," declares the LORD.
"Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them, They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it; For I will bring calamity upon them, The year of their punishment," declares the LORD.
"Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray. "Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
"Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets, 'Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water, For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.' "
Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the LORD.
"They keep saying to those who despise Me, 'The LORD has said, "You will have peace'"; And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, They say, 'Calamity will not come upon you.'
"But who has stood in the council of the LORD, That he should see and hear His word? Who has given heed to His word and listened?
"Behold, the storm of the LORD has gone forth in wrath, Even a whirling tempest; It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.
"The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it.
Amen bro!
Oh yes, now they're just stuffy,unstuffy, still-cliquish, pharisee driven, sadducee-driven sanctimonious,still sanctimonious over different things self-righteous,still self-righteous dead,painted-corpse frozen, lukewarm hypocritical, still hypocritical harsh, outwardly polite brittle,stunted prickly, polished sober-faced fake-smiling so-called Christianity.
Blind man, ask for healing for your eyes. WE NEED to feel bad about our sin. It is a sign that we are being regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
From your profile page:
"The latter is about Biblical type Holy Spirit breathed dreams and visions regarding the end times. "
Ah, that's your problem. You have fallen into the TBN trap as well. Tell me, do you like Rick Joyner (Another false teacher?) How about Jesse Duplantis? He's very entertaining I must admit - but he casts aspersions on the inerrancy of Scripture in his own 'visions' and 'dreams' as most of them do. So does Joyner. You should probably know your Scripture before you make assertions that something is Scriptural. If you know a few verses you can make Satan look Scriptural. Even Demons believe, and tremble.
Then you are looking at it not from an immature standpoint and seeing it as someone with an immature agenda would see it.
Rick Warren himself advises you to do this. See things from an unbeliever's perspective. If I had an agenda I could take this book and run with it. Since I have no agenda except the Word, I am running into resistance. There's something wrong there...
EXACTLY!!! That is why this book cannot be given to immature Christians! It doesn't spend enough time warning them against danger. "That would be divisive and we don't want to do that, do we?" That's compromise right there. Truth will ALWAYS be divisive no matter how nicely is is spoken, unless all people are open to truth... which they are not.
By the way, the book is FULL of contradictions. Just loaded with them, Except that in this case the contradictions are right next to each other. I found so many in the first few chapters I started reading with a pencil in hand and markng notes in the margins.
read this:
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/purpose_driven.htm
Purpose driven churches are encouraged to use Delphi Techniques to make changes. Is that what you want to promote? They don't make this information available to the Congregation however.
OK define what it means to be 'for christ' and 'against him' - ?
Now tell me, who is the first one to start hurling snide ad hominem insults on this thread instead of addressing things they believe to be wrong?
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