Purpose Driven or Purpose Drivel?

The discerning side of my mind

[Lasher]

Would like to know if there are any other Christians out there that have not swallowed Rick Warren's version of the Gospel. I left my "seeker-friendly" Church after much prayer and ponder, and it took several months to make the split. I still must speak with my former pastor about this, so until I do, I will not name my former Church. I have noticed that most who follow the "Purpose Driven" material are emotionally attached to it, much like true Christians are emotionally tied to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[bperiwinkle7]

Dear Brother Quix,
I feel like i need to respond, but i am at a loss for words to your words, except for WOW!.

Since our copy of the book is not in the house, which my husband's Bible study group at work is using, i can't give you page and line, but one small but illustrative example of the problem as seen by many, is a statement where it is written that we can know all of God's Glory.......and the writer wasn't referring to Jesus, but knowing ALL about God....now that is a silly over simplification which, and this is the salient part, can lead people to the wrong conclusions. i always tell my Sunday school class that if they don't use Biblical language to describe God then they have erred. misrepresentation of God, even a small one, can lead to an extrapolation or drawing out of a wrong line of thinking. that is what is wrong. and these wrong lines obscure the simplicity of the Gospel. Now you can't know if these salvations were real or not, the 9200 accredited to Saddleback, but according to George Barna, in a recent study, a very small percent of recorded salvations have resulted in a discipled, enduring Christian. there may be a multiplicity of reasons for this, but the possibility that these were "stony soil" conversions is high. Now, i want you to have peace and be calm and know that no one is attacking anyone with malice, so no vitriol and generalized vituperation is called for here. it will ruin my day if you yell at me. every one is calm. thank you.

[bperiwinkle7]

pardon me, but i would say one more thing. I think that a major failure of the present church is that many people aren't getting the message that they need a Saviour, and that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. I think this is a deficit also here in this book. calmness prevails.

[ThisLittleLightofMine]

What are you talking about? I think we are crossing wires here. I have no problem with his work! I simply asked for you to post the verse number that you referenced in your earlier post, it was a polite simple request.

You spoke of Jesus and his disciples and the word PRISSY ( I am assuming you were paraphrasing). All I asked for was a verse number for this discourse between Jesus and His disciples. Maybe you should review all posts with me. I think you might be confusing me with someone else.

While some may be turned off by Warren. I enjoyed his book and it obvious that the Bible is the foundation for this work. I think it is an excellent read for new believers.

[Quix]

Thanks for your reasoned reply.

I don't know if Warren refines and revises PDL or not.

I also doubt any of us could write a book that was even half Scripture and have it such that no other believer would find fault with it. People even find fault with very solid translations for a variety of valid and invalid to flawed reasons.

I would love to see Barma's study of Warren's church, if there is such. I just know that the way his groups are set up, that they have a much higher likelihood of resulting in lasting solid discipleship than even the better conventional preaching and ear tickling tha goes on in the vast majority of congregations.

People attend services as self-sufficient islands doing largely their own thing and leave the same way. imho, only quality small groups where Holy Spirit is potently involved can have much of a chance of making a lasting dent in such tendencies and human nature.

I prefer to be very calm and certainly reasonable. The hyperbolic, assaultive, outrageous, unGodly, even evil blackwashing that goes on needs someone with some courage to stand up and call a spade a spade.

And some folks in their unGodly attitudes are crusing for some very pointed revelations from Almighty God in their wholesale blackwashing of His servants and their ministries.

Certainly God is purifying ministries and all of us who truly seek Him. Such purifying will be getting more and more intense.

[blackie]

I'm a very spiritual, unscriptural person. ;)

[Quix]

aren't getting the message that they need a Saviour, and that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.

p35 [booklet] "Do not conform yourselves to the standards of this world, but let God transform you inwardly by a complete change of your mind. Then you will be able to know the will of God." Rom 12:2

p18 "What happiness for those who's guilt has been forgiven . . . what relief for those who have confessed their sins and God has cleared their record." Psalm 32:1

p20 "Jesus said, 'No one can serve two masters.'" Matt 6:24

p26 "Remember each of us will stand personally before the judgment seat of God . . . Yes, each of us will have to give a personal account to God." Rom 14:10b, 12

p26 "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

p39 "What do you have that God hasn't given you? And if all you have is from God, why boast as though you have accomplished something on your own?" I Cor 4:7

p43 "You're cheating on God. If all you want is your own way, flirting with the world every chance you get, you end up enemies of God and his way." James 4:4

p44 "Friends, this world is not your home, so don't make yourselves cozy in it. Don't indulge your ego at the expense of your soul." I Peter 2:11

p51 "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rom 3:23

p57 "To all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God." John 1:12

Seems to me, that your assertion about his book is inaccurate.

Certainly folks can read Scripture itself and not get the message. But I have found that Rick Warren has written a book that stands the best chance of any book I can recall in modern times of being used by Holy Spirit to convict and woo unbelievers to Jesus.

[Quix]

Didn't mean to mis-imply.

Glad you have some respect for Warren's work.

Sorry for any confusion and misapplication of my wording.

I was probably mostly sharing my convictions with any who had replied to me at all.

And, in terms of the posting the Scriptures, I was slightly mystified, thinking I'd already done some of what you were asking for.

Thanks for your kind reply.

[RobRoy]

I read both "Purpose Driven" books. I liked them both. I don't base my theology on them but I found nothing that contradicted what I believe, and actually found myself being strengthened by another mans perspective on the life of a believer.

But my desert island book beyond the bible would still be "Mere Christianity."

[pro610]

This whole movement has been very carefully planned by Peter Drucker and others. When you add up all the connections you will find good reason to stay away from this Purpose Driven Deception.


Link and information to Warren and Peter Drucker.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1369348/posts?page=27#27

Link to Warrens use of Carl Jungs Psychological profiling
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1369348/posts?page=6#6

Link to Peter Drucker,s mentors and his mindset.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1369348/posts?page=97#97

Links to Warren,s publisher
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1362565/posts?page=111#111

One can very clearly see that this Movement belongs more to Peter Drucker then Rick Warren.

[pro610]

What most people don,t understand is that almost all of this Purpose Driven stuff is NOT Rick Warrens idea.
The methods being implemented are not even Peter Drucker,s idea,s,although Drucker learned how to apply and insert them into an Evangelical movement.
The methods come from Carl Jung and a whole list of ancient philosophers.
The System is the General System Theory and Psychological profiling applied to Christianity and blended with forms of Eastern Mysticism.

Christians are supposed to be Holy Spirit lead.
NOT PURPOSE DRIVEN!
Satan is becoming more and more brazen because he knows his time is short

[Terriergal]

I'm a very spiritual, unscriptural person. ;)

You'd better work on that. So is Satan.

[Gamecock]

This little hissy fit you just pitched is most impressive, even by your own standards.

Your ad homs regarding my walk with the Risen Saviour does nothing but validate my thoughts on the PDL.

Sola Scriptura! Read about it sometimes my easily deceived friend. At one time Christians died for that principle. Now you think that if someone doesn't fawn over the current fad in American Christianity they are blaspheming the Lord.




Shame on you.

[HarleyD]

"Christians are supposed to be Holy Spirit lead. NOT PURPOSE DRIVEN!"

One has to wonder if the 7,000 prophets sitting around in Elijah's time felt as if they were "purpose driven"? Somehow we feel we need to be out there "doing things" instead of being led by God. It's as if we're going to run the show.

[blackie]

Glad to someone speaking for the devil. ;)

The Lord is very happy with my spirituality!

[topcat54]

Christians are supposed to be Holy Spirit lead. NOT PURPOSE DRIVEN!

This is a false dichatomy. One can be both "Spirit led" and "purpose driven".

The Westminster Larger Catechism, written in 1647, starts off:

Q. 1. What is the chief and highest end of man?
A. Man’s chief and highest end is to glorify God, and fully to enjoy him forever.

If that answer does not define one's purpose ("to glorify God and enjoy him forever"), and motivate one to be "purpose driven", I don't know what would.

Rick Warren may not have it down perfectly, but the notion of a "purpose driven life" is fully biblical and Christian.

[pro610]

The methods being applied are not Christian.
Tell me when anything that comes from Carl Jung applies to Christianity?
Tell me it,s ok to mix Yoga and Centering Prayer with Christianity?
The fact is none of this is Biblical at all.

[JockoManning]

Thank you Quix.

JM

[Quix]

Very well said

ON ALL COUNTS, imho.

Thanks.

[Quix]

Drucker has other fish to fry, imho.

But he's happy to help all kinds of people and organizations achieve their goals better.

A huge lot of Drucker is not at all incompatible with Scripture or the Christian life.

Satan uses radio, TV, computers, cars, trucks, paper, newspapers, magazines.

So does God.

Jung was a character and has misled many astray with his inaccurate [at best] understanding of reality. But, even some of his insights into the human condition can have some validity not at odds with Christianity.

For example, one can construe Gestalt psychology of flowing out of Jung, if one wishes. And, the Christian Gestalt, world view, truth is the only real one. A useful concept. I have no need to trash and avoid a good vocabulary word or concept just because it could be traced somewhat back to Jung.

I think Holy Spirit has enabled Rick Warren to translate The Gospel into a modern vernacular which is powerfully winning souls to Christ AND discipling them into mature Christianity.

I dare say, Rick Warren is very responsible for 10's of thousands of successfully and meaningfully baptized new believers growing into mature Christians--10's of thousands more than you.

If you wish to throw rocks at him, do not be surprised, at some point, if His Lord and Master Jesus The Christ has some things to say to you about your rock throwing.

BTW, can you think of a single example in Scripture where NAYSAYERS were EVER on God's side of an issue or situation?

I can't.

[Quix]

What a STRAW DOG!

Holy Spirit makes any willing Believer MUCH MORE PURPOSE DRIVEN than they ever were before Holy Spirit taking the lead in their lives.

Sheesh.

BTW, thinking is often a useful practice.