Posted on 07/24/2004 8:27:07 PM PDT by narses
Touche` Doc, Touche`!
I couldn't help myself. :-)
How could you?
Notice the lack of scripture for his beliefs.
(Shameless rip off of the Animanics cartoon)
OOOHHH!!! The Animaniacs....my favorites!!!! Hey, what you wrote was not the greatest in the world......but you may have been on to something! Please continue!
What are we going to do tonight, Brain?
The same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to take over the world!
Don'tcha love it?
"Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is With Thee."
Doesn't do a thing for me. I don't pray to Mary. I pray to God the Father, through Jesus Christ. That is the biblical way. There is no other.
Actually, the quote I posted was a direct quote from the Gospel. Why do you REJECT scripture?
"Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is With thee. Blessed art Thou amongst Women, and Blessed is the Fruit of thy Womb Jesus."
Irishtenor, I see you are a Presbyterian, so thought it my opener to step in. Well, me too, in the past.
In the '50's as a young Presbyterian, I burned with desire to be a preacher. More important to me was the quest for truth no matter where it brought me, and guess where it brought me!
One day I heard the Rosary on a radio program, and puzzled at first, I was curious. First reaction: knee jerk declaration they were praying to Mary as if to an idol. Then I listened, finding Gospel and truth in what was said.
Then I started seeing my Presbyterian upbringing as OK, but sort of like Christianity Lite. To me the answers were with the Church founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ as the Bride of Christ, and not an offshoot coming millenia later. And I understood without being taught the first time I witnessed it, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was just that, the truth, and not what we were led to believe, dinner with Jesus and the homeless or whatever.
And, yes, I have read the heroic escapades of Luther but also several darker sides of hero Martin Luther, some my Mom, a devout Lutheran would never listen to. And I bet you never read the "rest of the story" either. Maybe you can locate some of it on a google search, the story of a troubled revolutionary bent on destruction, yet reluctant to let even his own mother part from the Catholic faith and insisting she continue to Mass. (Could it be he wanted his mom saved, even in the knowledge he was leading others astray?)
You might find he believed Marianology, the truth for what it was, then fought it anyway.
It really gets tough for me to see doubt and destruction as virtues any more. I can only doubt the doubters. It is tough as well to accept truth with footnotes and qualifications, when the simple truth is right there. The emptiness of my searching went away as I settled into being a plain old traditional Catholic.
Check out my own tagline to see where I came after the Presbyterian Church.
Mary is "Co-Redemptrix" in the sense that her cooperation with God, her "fiat," brought our Savior into the world. In no way is the title meant to elevate Mary to the Godhead.
Since the prefix "co" is often interpreted as "co-equal," it would be very easy to misinterpret this title and assume that the doctrine "elevates Mary to a co-equal status with her Son."
The pope has refused to promulgate this dogma for this pastoral reason.
Right, the Bible Luther and all the other Protestants got from the Catholic Church. No problem with that.
Bible alone. Faith alone.
These doctrines of Luther are neither Scriptural nor of Christ.
"Men have crowded all her glory into a single phrase, 'the Mother of God'. No one can say anything greater of her or to her, though he had as many tongues as there are leaves on the trees . . ."Martin Luther
Why do you need Mary in any role, co, cum, etc?
The Father gave us Jesus. The Father made Jesus pre-eminent and supreme. In Jesus, you receive all that you need to approach the Father, have your sins forgiven, your prayers answered.
In Jesus is our life. In Jesus in our light. In Jesus in our salvation.
Why does any believer need any co-redemtrix, co-mediator, co anything?
God's answer to man's fall is Jesus...
Mary is the Mother of God.
Co-Redemptrix is an afterthought compared to that title.
>>The Father gave us Jesus. The Father made Jesus pre-eminent and supreme. In Jesus, you receive all that you need to approach the Father, have your sins forgiven, your prayers answered. <<
Because when two Christians pray together it is much more powerful than one.
I am constantly amazed that the same people who join in the prayer threads here will slam Catholics for praying with saints. It's just fine if you prefer those who are alive to those who have gone on, but please don't condemn me for my faith. (not you personally)
Thank you for the answer.
>>Whoa! Dial down the anger... I just asked a question<<
Truly, the anger was not directed at you.
I have been on threads where I have been made fun of for my opinions. Where a poster has called in other people to laugh about what I have said. To me it is rude.
My Jesus is not better than anyone else's Jesus, but some people here do feel that way.
I personally feel that anyone who has a good relationship with God and walks in the path of Jesus will make it to heaven. I understand the narrow path but pitting Christian against Christian is outside of that path as well (and that also is not directed at you).
I guess what I am saying is that if a person feels my way is the wrong way, pray for me. God will show me the right way, whether it is mine or theirs.
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