Posted on 07/21/2004 3:37:21 PM PDT by AAABEST
A little over a month ago my dad was diagnosed with inoperable cancer in his left lung. The plan was to go through chemo to try and bring it under control. He has since undergone one round of chemo.
The other day he took a turn for the worse and had to be rushed to the hospital, he was very pale and had to be rushed to the hospital because of shortness of breath.
He now is unconscious and on life support. In addition to having double pneumonia he has several blood clots, one of which is lodged in his lung. The cancer turned out to have spread to his liver and I believe his heart (according to my aunt). He can not breath on his own right now.
This all happened very suddenly, I just talked to him on a few days ago.
Anyway my aunt (his sister who is actually closer to him than I) called me last night to let me know what was going on and said that there was no hope she was opting for taking him off the respirator. I'm not aware of all of the legalities, medical intricacies etc. I told her that as long as things followed the teachings of the church, I would trust any decision she makes. IOW no removing of food and water, last rites etc.
Today I get out of a meeting and have a message from her and the doctor to call them. I call her she has him call me back. It turns out this is MY decision to make, even though I'm not there. I asked the doctor if there is any hope that he could regain consciousness, he tells me that he's not God and that the chances are slim but there is a remote possibility. One of the reasons for his lack of conciousness is all of the drugs they have to administer to manage pain and keep his heart going.
At that point I told him that this simply was not my decision to make. As long as there is a chance that my dad could become conscious and make these moral (and legal) decisions on his own with his own life, I couldn't possibly give this "OK" that they want.
It's not that I don't want to, it's that I simply can't.
In any case his cancer is inoperable and incurable and the doctor said that he's never seen anyone in this condition live more than a few months regardless.
Also, I'm all the way down here in Southwest Florida and he has 2 sisters visiting there from out of state and others that his condition would cause a hardship for. I'm leaving Fri night or Saturday and will only be able to stay in Atlanta until Mon or Tues.
I know I could never give permission to take him off life support if there is a chance he could come out of this, even if only for a short time.
If anyone has any advice or input I would appreciate it. If you want to post prayers that's fine, but I know that nearly all of the blessed people here will be praying for him without my asking whether they are post their prayers or not. It's just the way you are.
His name is Walter.
As far as any advice I may offer, with all due respect of course, it's hard for me to say one way or another without knowing your father.
But I will say this...dying from cancer is not pleasant. And IMO...if he's not breathing on his own, God's already made his decision.
If it were my father, I'd probably lean towards letting him go if he didn't improve in a few days.
Prayers for you, your father, and your family. May the Lord bless you with the wisdom and strength to make the right decision.
Dear Lord, i pray for AAAbest comfort during this difficult time,and i pray for walters comfort at the end of this worldly time.
2Co 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
my prayers are with you,i would not intervene if it was my parent.God is totally soveriegn.
is your dad a believer?
if he is,than joyously the Lord is taking him home.
GODBLESS!
What would your Dad want? Has he ever made any comments in the past which might indicate his wishes?
I agree with you that it is ultimately God's decision to make. You could make him a DNR (do not resuscitate) in the event his heart stops beating. Resuscitation would be traumatic and likely just prolong his death. If the machines are simply breathing for him due to meds, then he may come off of them, God willingly, if the doctors get the other problems under control.
As you say, only God knows. If he wills your father to live a few more months then he will start breathing on his own without the machines. If not, his heart will stop. But, removing respiratory support from him right now would stop his heart. If he has brain activity he is not even clinically brain dead.
This is a tough situation. I'm sorry. Of course you all will remain in my prayers.
My prayers for you and Walter
The Bible says let the one who wants wisdom to ask Of The Lord.
1) I think that's your first priority. Perhaps then some quiet times to listen AND to be tuned in to God as well as you can manage in quiet times that occur.
2) I think you would do well to ask God to put you in your dad's place. Ask God to show you what your dad would be feeling physically, emotionally, spiritually, relationally.
Tune in as best you can and get your best sense of God's messages to you on these scores. His Holy Spirit usually makes His messages known through His still small voice. And He's usually rather gentle and leads along the line of peace.
3) FWIW strictly: It SOUNDS like you are holding out a 0.00001% or some such faintest chance that your dad would wake up in great pain and confusion for a very brief time for great medical heroics and rising and falling hopes and fears on the part of all concerned--for what purpose--more pain and bother for your Dad? I'm not convinced that would be THE MOST LOVING THING to do.
4) Did your Dad have a living will or any such instructions? Did he discuss this with any of his relatives or friends? What was his attitude generally through his life about unnecessary suffering.
5) The odds are, from what you've said, that the medical personnel gave you a technically accurate response--there's some faint possibility of a regain of consciousness. Medical personnel are usually loathe to speak in absolutes. Especially in our litigeous society. But for all practical purposes, given the problems you've mentioned, IT SOUNDS LIKE, PRACTICALLY, FUNCTIONALLY THERE'S EXTREMELY LITTLE TO NO chance of any functional recovery of meaningful consciousness. And the pain and hassles for your dad in the process would be rather extreme.
6) I don't know if you've had pneumonia--but that alone left me wishing I would die. Those other complications are HORRENDOUS ON TOP OF the pneumonia. The liver and heart complications alone are very seriously life threatening from what you've described. Then there's the blood clots.
7) I don't know how well you have been at reading your dad's subtle nonverbals, his spirit etc. or not. But perhaps you could get a sense from being in the room with him whether he has surrendered from this life and is seeking to graduate to a much better one. Holding on to him in that case, given all the medical givens--could be rather . . . troublesome . . . at best.
These are all just food for thought and prayer items.
God's best peace to you, dad and family.
Prayerfully,
I am praying for you and your father in this difficult and sad situation.
It is an impossible task to give advice online without being aware of all the facts personally, but I would suggest some general principles that may be of guidance.
1. Although we believe in the sanctity of life and that it is always wrong to take a life, it is also not necessary to take extra-ordinary measures to unnaturally prolong life.
2. While food and water are always basic necessities which should not be withdrawn from a living person, artificial ventilation has been viewed as an unnecessary extra-ordinary measure in previous cases.
3. The prospect for further intervention should be weighed against the possible harm and suffering that it may cause to the patient.
4. Palliative care and analgesia will usually have the effect of shortening a patient's life, but under the principle of "double effect" this is morally acceptable as long as the primary objective of such treatment is to manage the pain.
Most dioceses will have a specialist in Canon Law or Moral Theology whose advice can be sought in these scenarios, but more importantly I would strongly recommend that you speak to a priest who you can trust for his orthodoxy and integrity.
May God be with you both.
Dn. Augustine.
I will keep you and your Dad in my prayers. May the Lord's will be done.
I worked in ICU for many years and saw these heart breaking situations all of the time. Keep your Dad hydrated and comfortable with pain medication. While legally and morally the ventilator cannot be suddenly removed without a flat EEG, it can be slowly weaned off. The rest is in God's hands.
If you consent to disconnect, be prepared to live with your decision for the rest of your life. I will tell you that if convenience is an issue, it will probably come back to haunt you forever. Make sure your motives are pure if you do disconnect.
This is a good idea. Is Fr. Carl available?
Prayers are being sent up.
As for the decision, it isn't easy but prayer is the key. I know an impossible decision like this is made better when you elevate it to the Spiritual.
Out of all the saints, St. Anthony has always been there for me. By his intercession, may God let his Will be made known to you, and that you have peace in accepting God's Holy Will.
Let him go his cancer is pervasive and he is dying. the only thing that is stopping his death is major technology.
My first reaction would be to first (and I know you have been too) pray, pray, pray like crazy.
Beyond that, first make sure your dad is comfortable beyond anything. If you can be assured of that, have him hang on until you get there. This is a painful, very difficult (and important) decision to make. It's hard to make something like this decision from a distance. Until you can get there by his bedside, don't do anything yet, but be sure he is comfortable.
Trust me. There is no worse pain on God's green earth than not being able to say "goodbye" before someone passes on. You need to be there. So, before you make any decisions, be sure you are there.
Besides, you never know what God is up to.
Hang in there, AAA, I'll keep you and Walter in my prayers tonight.
Working in the medical field, all I can say by reading your post is that it does not look good for your father. If the cancer has already spread to the liver, unfortunately a CT brain scan may show that it also has gone to the brain.
My uncle also had lung cancer and died a very painful death. However, he was never at the point where he was on a respirator, he was kept comfortable with morphine until the end. Prayer was his only solice.
I wish it was an easy decision to make, but it is not. Just keep in mind what your father would want, and pray very hard for the Lord's guidance. Tell God your pains and sufferings and then listen, God will answer you.
I will keep you and your father in my prayers. God Bless your loving and faithful servant Walter.
Whatever you do, don't deal with your father's death remotely. Go. See him, pray with him; if the time has come (as it must for all of us), make sure he gets the Sacraments.
These are the times that try mens' souls. May God grant you wisdom and strength.
First of all, prayers for your dad and your entire family.
Secondly, you are making the right decisions if there is any chance of recovery, no matter how remote. God bless you for your decisions, and please do not let others sway your Catholic convictions. (I don't think you will, but my prayers are with you.)
When my husband died, he had decided to stop the radiology treatments himself. It was difficult for me to accept this and not feel abandoned by both him and God.
May God continue to walk with you and your family during this difficult time.
My Dad died of cancer with lung and liver involvement
He was placed in a coma with meds.
The oncologist told us that when there is live involvement the time is measured in weeks. He was right .
I will pray for wisdom for you
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