Posted on 07/16/2004 6:09:37 PM PDT by narses
Reviewer: jim.moriarty@xxxxxxxxx Sylvania, Ohio United States)
This confirms what I thought was going on in the Novus Ordo Church. These priests see the Liberal-Modernist overtones of the New Mass and reject it. They literally go through HELL to get back to the sacrificing priest concept who offers up Jesus Christ for our sins, like in the Old Testament, not a Good Time "Happy Meal" as the Novus Ordo has it. I didn't want to put it down. These men are REAL HEROES, bucking the Catholic establishment, giving up EVERYTHING, (pension, medical insurance, housing, etc.) for their beliefs.
Some are even "suspended", and/or without faculties, and literally cast aside by their Liberal Bishops. Yet they persevere giving the True Mass to the faithful. Many are 25-40 years into their priesthood. They are sure of their actions to a man. INSPIRING! HOPEFUL! The future of the Catholic Church as the sex scandals blow up on all sides!! A MUST READ for all Catholics who know somethings' wrong, but just couldn't put their finger on it. THIS puts the finger ON IT!!! IN SPADES!!
In any case, I would like to invite you to our traditional Catholic forum.
God bless.
With this inherent defect of "form" is joined the defect of "intention" which is equally essential to the Sacrament. The Church does not judge about the mind and intention, in so far as it is something by its nature internal; but in so far as it is manifested externally she is bound to judge concerning it. A person who has correctly and seriously used the requisite matter and form to effect and confer a sacrament is presumed for that very reason to have intended to do (intendisse) what the Church does. On this principle rests the doctrine that a Sacrament is truly conferred by the ministry of one who is a heretic or unbaptized, provided the Catholic rite be employed. (Leo XIII, "Apostolicae Curae", 33)
Consequently, others with better reason hold that the minister of a sacrament acts in the person of the whole Church, whose minister he is; while in the words uttered by him, the intention of the Church is expressed; and that this suffices for the validity of the sacrament, except the contrary be expressed on the part either of the minister or of the recipient of the sacrament. (St. Thomas, Summa Theologiae, III q. 64 a. 8)
Since when did I say I followed a sect that separated ourselves from the Pope?
Did I say I was a Sedevacantist? Did I say that I was SSPX? No, I didn't. One can be a Traditional Catholic without being those things. Fr. Wickens was a Traditional priest and he was independent, NOT SSPX. It is not fair to place labels on people when you don't know exactly where they stand.
Don't assume that anyone who is not sympathatic to the Conciliar Church is separated from Rome.. and against the teachings of the Magisterium. Hardly!
For instance as when Hubbard the Homo Harborer uses honeybread we know for sure that he didn't use proper matter and nothing was done about it.
The point is that you can't trust someone with no credibility. Much of the clergy has no credibility, therefor can not be trusted.
Look at the bread? As long as it's wheat bread there's no problem with validity. Besides, MarineMomJ was referring to a case where hosts from the indult Mass and the Novus Ordo get mixed - if the NO hosts were invalid they'd look different.
More commonly spelled "barque", lol...
Woof.
That's not true in the least, I'm surprised someone who is relatively well read on such matters would make such a statement.
There are many ways to invalidate the matter and still be wheat bread and you know it.
Freudian slip.
To be precise:
3. If the bread is not made of wheat flour, or if so much other grain is mixed with the wheat that it is no longer wheat bread, or if it is adulterated in some other way, there is no Sacrament.
I made a bit of a mistake there - had "pure" but dropped it because of the comment on "other grain" - should have put "unadulterated" or something. Of course if raisins or something are added it's invalid.
You think Novus Ordo Masses are invalid. That's a position not even the SSPX takes
There is no such thing as an "independent chapel" in the Latin Rite. If you're not under a bishop, you're not under the Pope.
You have separated yourself from the Pope, mom.
It's been documented many times here that some of them serve invalid host bread out in the open. As I said Hubbard served leavened honey bread.
Well, you don't live in this diocese, or do you? I thought you were somewhere in Texas, am I wrong? But, I suspect there were other reasons considering he was up front about teaching the Catholic Faith from the pulpit. It may seem hard for those who do not live in a diocese where the "lavender mafia" is powerful to believe, but yes indeed a priest can be let go for just such a thing. My own pastor was forced out of his first assignment before he ever got there because the nun liturgist at the parish he had been assigned gave her ultimatum. Fortunately, another pastor who knew him to be a very good seminarian offered him a post.
So do I.
^ 5, Deb... !!
I'll be a Papal Bull Dog! :)
Sink, you are putting words in my mouth again.
I've read enough of your postings the last couple of years to know where your head is. I didn't say that the Novus Ordo Mass was invalid. I said, with the liturgical abuses imposed since Vatican II, the Faith has been watered down because the Conciliar Church forced the Novus Ordo Mass down our throats.
We weren't given a choice in the matter. The Tridentine Rite was, and still is supressed, but was never outlawed.
And yes, we do have a Bishop. Not a diocesan bishop. We do believe in the Pope. We don't have to like him, but we believe in him.
Case closed.. :)
You didn't have to.
If you think co-mingling hosts consecrated at the Indult with your traditionally consecrated hosts somehow contaminates them, then I can only guess what you think of the Novus Ordo.
Who is your bishop? What is his name?
You know sinkspur I used to think that some of the posters on this forum were unfair to you, but I'm beginning to change my mind about that.
You know, Diva, anybody can come on Free Republic and say anything.
So, when someone says a priest is removed for telling someone they have to consume the Host, I just don't believe them.
You admit there were likely other things involved, and I agreed with you.
Apparently, you don't like that. I don't know what else to say.
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