Posted on 07/14/2004 6:12:39 AM PDT by NYer
Rnmom: I adore God, not a piece of bread, I trust Jesus to save me, not a piece of bread .
NYer: A consecrated host is NOT a piece of bread and you especially, as a former catholic, know better than to post that comment.
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NYer, is it now inappropriate for Protestants, who were former Catholics, to state their beliefs in the Religion Forum?
I absolutely agree with Rnmom's statement. Do I get a subtle lecture too?
It is well established Protestant’s don’t believe in the Real Presence. It is also well established that neither Catholic nor Orthodox Christians believe a consecrated host is a piece of bread.
What else can we say except we agree to disagree?
Disagreement is fine. Telling someone they should know better than to post their beliefs is what I reacted to.
"p.s. I also find little ones can sense the awesomeness of the moment and are usually on their best behavior. Or sleeping."
Yes!
About 6 months ago, my son (daddy's boy - 7 yrs old) asked to come with me and I was thrilled. He prayed for 20 seconds on a kneeler, then played quietly with a little toy he brought along. About 30 minutes in I could tell he was getting bored, he would look up at me and sigh noticeably as if to say "how much longer." But he stuck it out and did so on his best behaviour. He might have been bored and disengaged, but he was a good trooper.
The most interesting thing is when we climbed into our truck to leave, I broke the silence and simply asked him, "well, how did you like that?" I was ready for him to start complaining......but his response, I kid you not...."Dad, that was a blast...I want to come every week!"
I was laughing on the inside, only God could pull off such a feat.
Disrespecting the Catholic Doctrine of the Real Presence by stating “ I adore God, not a piece of bread, I trust Jesus to save me, not a piece of bread “ is what I’m talking about.
***Disrespecting the Catholic Doctrine of the Real Presence by stating “ I adore God, not a piece of bread, I trust Jesus to save me, not a piece of bread “ is what I’m talking about.***
That is no disrespect. It is a plain statement of Protestant theology. It is disagreement, to be sure.
Tell me you consider my views heretical and it doesn't bother me. But tell me that I have no business posting my views and I ask when did this become a Catholic Forum?
If you are offended by statements that are not congruent with Catholic dogma, then why not post on a Catholics only forum?
Yes, the disagreement is in the theology. That isn't the problem. The offense is in the way that disagreement is stated. We've all done it from time to time, on all sides.
I am an Orthodox Christian and it is a piece of bread. A piece of bread with the real presence of Christ, but nonetheless a piece of bread. Just as Christ was also both divine and human.
I, and many others don’t view it that way.
It is a plain statement of Protestant theology.
No it’s not. The added comment of “not a piece of bread” is a disrespect, not a disagreement, of Catholic doctrine.
It is disagreement, to be sure.
Agreed.
But tell me that I have no business posting my views and I ask when did this become a Catholic Forum?
Post all the views you want. All I’m saying is we all need to respect opposing views.
If you are offended by statements that are not congruent with Catholic dogma, then why not post on a Catholics only forum?
I am not offended by the fact that many don’t agree the Eucharist is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. Good grief man, we’ve got a bunch of Catholic’s that feel the same way. Just like you get your panties in a wad if someone makes a disparaging comment against Calvin, Catholics react the same way when the Eucharist is disrespected.
Substance And Accidents
If it's bread "with the Real Presence", it's not bread: bread is a mixture of flour, water and some other ingredients. The Eucharist ceases to be "bread" at consecration.
***Just like you get your panties in a wad if someone makes a disparaging comment against Calvin, Catholics react the same way when the Eucharist is disrespected.***
Make any disparaging remark you wish as long as it is factual and it's fine with me.
*** Good grief man, we’ve got a bunch of Catholic’s that feel the same way. ***
Then redirect your indignity. Expect Catholics to be Catholics, and don't get frothy at what was a very mild Protestant comment.
BTW, Protestants believe it is precisely "a piece of bread" that pictures the One Who died in our place. We adore the Person rather than the picture.
Among Anglicans the matter of the Real Presence is, naturally, rather hard to nail down. The Articles are adamant in the reality of it, but aside from an affirmation of a "spiritual" nature and a rejection of transubstantiation, interpretation is fairly open. Some of the Carolina Divines and the Anglo-Catholics have a very high Eucharistic doctrine, which at times approaches the Roman or Lutheran view. And then amongst the Low Church folks, one might find an almost Zwinglian bare-bones symbolism.
Even Calvin had a remarkably high view of the Eucharist, endorsing a Real Presence, although the exact nature of his views is definitely a matter of debate. He disagreed quite admantly with Luther- but also with Zwingli. At any rate, Zwingli's novel position was the minority among the Reformers. His view has definitely proven the winner in modern Protestantism, if defined by the number of adherents or semi-adherents.
Heck, even the originial Baptist confessions on Communion have sacramental-sounding language, with talk of grace being connected to the Eucharist, and even of partaking of Christ in some sense. By contrast, few evangelicals today make any connection between the Eucharist and God's action. It is merely a memorial meal in which the action is entirely one of exercising faith via a didactic rite.
Probably thought he was......
Miracles are signs of God's glory and mercy.
If you say so.
Expect Catholics to be Catholics,
I do.
and don't get frothy at what was a very mild Protestant comment.
Let’s agree to disagree
BTW, Protestants believe it is precisely "a piece of bread" that pictures the One Who died in our place. We adore the Person rather than the picture.
You do understand Catholics adore the person also. We just happen to believe he’s present in the Eucharist.
Are you, a Catholic, opposed to "exercising faith via a didactic rite?"
I expect pegleg will be along any minute now to chastise the poster of this remark for not being respectful of others' beliefs.
What's up ksen? You mean you’re not a Catholic? :-)
Of course not ... how did her comment become a 'statement of faith'? Like Mom, I adore God and I trust Jesus to save me. She may have abandoned her faith in the Real Presence but Christ has not abandoned His faith in her.
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