Posted on 06/07/2004 12:54:26 AM PDT by ultima ratio
Portugal: Hindu ceremony at Fatima
Summary : In October and November of last year, DICI revealed the threat of an inter-religious center being built at Fatima (see DICI n° 83 and n° 85). On May 5, Portuguese television viewers were able to see on the TV channel SIC, around sixty Hindus from Lisbon, led by a high priest, paying homage to the goddess of nature in the Chapel of the Apparitions at Fatima.
The SIC journalist gave a description of the Hindus, gathered in their temple in the Portuguese capital, to pray and worship the different statues of Hindu gods. Then, having arrived at Fatima, the pilgrims headed for the Chapel of the Apparitions, where their priest presided over the recitation of prayers. Here is the telecasters commentary: This is a unique and unprecedented moment in the history of the shrine. The Hindu priest, or Sha Tri, recites at the altar the Shaniti Pa, the prayer for peace. The Hindus can be seen removing their shoes, before approaching the rails of the sanctuary. During the coverage, the rector of the sanctuary, Fr. Luciano Guerra declared: These encounters give us occasion to remember that we live in a community. (sic)
After having worshiped their gods and prayed in the chapel, the Hindus were conducted to an exhibition room, where there is a scale model of the future inter-religious basilica, in the process of being built. There, each one of them was personally welcomed by the bishop of Leira-Fatima, who bowed before the Hindu priest in response to his greeting. The Hindu priest then robed the rector of the sanctuary and the bishop of Fatima in the shawl of Hindu priests. The telecasters commentary: Upon the shoulders of the highest representatives of the Church in Fatima, the Hindu priest places a shawl, bearing inscriptions from the Bagavad Gita, one of Hinduisms sacred books.
The report concluded with images showing a Hindu priest lighting a candle in the sanctuary, while his disciples danced outside the Chapel of the Apparitions, singing praises to their gods. The commentator ended with these words: In 1982, a guru, a Hindu high priest, came from Bombay to Fatima. He signed the golden book immediately after Pope John Paul II and on the same page as Mother Teresa of Calcutta.
In justification of his actions, the bishop of the diocese of Leira-Fatima, Mgr. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, declared to a local newspaper: We do not wish to be fundamentalists, but to be sincere and honest.
Fr. Bugnini.
Bugnini, yes. But Pius was old and entitled to a single mistake, especially since the man kept his real intentions under cover. You want to smear Pius to cut the conciliar popes some slack. It won't work--anymore than claiming Pius was indifferent to the fate of the Jews--a different kind of smear. Pius XII was the last great and wise pope. He saw what was coming and warned of it. The other three--I excuse JPI--were liberal disasters who were not good stewards. They left (or are about to leave) the Church vastly weakened.
Our Lady of Fatima Ping.
Didn't Mother Theresa worship there with the Hindu's or participated in a Hindu service in India? I thought I read that she did.
Mother Teresa may not have been entirely orthodox, as the following article explains:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a013htMotherTeresa.htm
but then we should remember that "charity covers a multitude of sins".
In addition to the Hindus, we know that the Dalai Lama was also hosted at Fatima:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/b005ht.htm
After the horrors of Assisi 1 and 2, none of this Fatima news should come as any surprise.
What is even more reprehensible is that those dogmas which distinguish Catholics from other Christians--which were handed-down from Christ and his apostles--are being deliberately suppressed and even subverted to diminish the perception of any but minor differences. This is the motivating force behind the Novus Ordo. Now this same homogenizing agenda is being extended to include non-Christian religions.
LOL! That would be news to Lee!
He only attends the Byzantine Divine liturgy, and would be more likely to go over to Eastern Orthodoxy than Novus Ordo Catholicism.
And NOR is very critical of the post-conciliar Church's lunacies.
You probably missed their articles highly critical of JPII and the hierarchy in general lately?
The Abomination of Desolation certainly appears to have entered the Fatima sanctuary.
Its one thing to converse with non-Christian religions, and recognize what "truths" may be found within their philosophies. Its another thing altogether to allow them to perform religious ceremonies within the sanctuary.
Seems to me this Church will need to be purified and re consecrated following this?
I agree. If one wishes to show friendship or solidarity against the forces of atheism, let Catholic prelates invite Hindu priests to lunch--or organize a conference--or dialogue with them to their hearts' content in some religiously neutral environment. But we don't owe them our sacred altars in violation of the First Commandment.
Flat out, he has got to be an infiltrator, "sent" to help destroy The Church. At least "the enemy" is exposing (it)self.
For me, this is the worst part. Once the Muslims hold a service inside anyone else's religious building, the building becomes Muslim.
That's reasonable. But however much I disagree with the methods and schizmatic tendencies of John Vennari, one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events. While I wouldn't put anything beyong Fr. Gruner, I doubt Vennari is engaging in wholesale fraud.
The hyperventilation in this thread seems to suggest an agenda.
I certainly have no agenda. I do not trust the Grunerites myself.
That said, I think the mainstream media in Portugal HAS reported on this, which should be enough at present to establish SOMETHING untoward happened at the Fatima shrine.
Thanks for the ping - too bad these Hindus haven't studied and followed the teachings in their Bhagavad Gitas. Note these verses condemning the worship of demigods:
Chapter 7 Text 20-23:
Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.
I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity.
Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.
Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees [bhaktas = worshippers] ultimately reach My supreme planet [beyond the material universe; the Kingdom of God].
Correction:
...one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events in order to deny what is being reported.
To explain further, the demigods mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita are the "gods" that many Hindus are seen to worship, and these "gods" *might* be compared to angels in Christian understanding. (I don't want to disrespect angels, so this may not be an accurate assumption.)
The various demigods are empowered or deputed agents of God, whose duty it is to maintain the funtioning of the material world, and they therefore have majestic powers to control every aspect of the functioning of this universe. They consider them selves as humble servants of God. Any energy or potency they have is directly coming from God, just as any energy or power anyone has is coming from God; we do not create our own bodies or mental or physical strength - everything is a gift from God.
That said, the demigods also have a (very long) life span and eventually must die, as must all created beings. Their bodies are made of material elements, as ours are. Worshipping them (as apparently happened at Fatima) is like bribing government officials - it just isn't recommended, and is clearly condemned by God Himself.
Hinduism is in essence monotheistic - but unfortunately many Hindus have lost the essence of their own scriptures and ancient traditions.
What makes you think Zenit--or the Vatican--is a reliable source? Rome has been caught lying over and over--the last time when it denied it's own e-mails to journalists--which were traced to its own computers--regarding The Passion.
And while it's true Fatima is private revelation, Catholic altars are still Catholic altars. The issue isn't whether Fatima is authentic or not, though it is an authentic Catholic shrine which has been venerated by all recent popes, but whether OUR CATHOLIC ALTARS are to be allowed to be used by Hindu priests in their worship of pagan gods. Try to stick to the issue.
"But however much I disagree with the methods and schizmatic tendencies of John Vennari, one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events."
What is far more telling is not that the Vatican is confirming the report, but that it is not denying it. Nor is the Bishop of Fatima denying the reports. No one is calling Vennari or the Portuguese press or SSPX's Dici or anyone else liars. They don't accuse them of this--because the report is true.
On the other hand, I have yet to read any convincing debunking of the story. It was reported on a mainstream Portugese newspaper's website. They claim it was reported on a Portugese news broadcast.
It should not be that difficult to get copies of that broadcast. Has Vennari done so?
Right now, objectively, given the "proof" offered by both sides, it seems the evidence available supports the claim that Hindus, led by a priest, held a prayer service at the Catholic Chapel at Fatima.
And while the message of Fatima is private revelation and NOT part of the desposit of Faith, such pagan use of a consecrated Catholic Church is simply wrong.
It has happened elsewhere, often enough. Remember the Buddhists at the Catholic Church in the midwest several months ago, who were interupted by SSPXers?
But of course, Fatima holds far greater significance for our times, and thus this story needs to be further substantiated or definitively refutes.
To this date, neither has ocurred.
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