Portugal: Hindu Ceremony at Fatima

Dici ^ | May 6, 2004 | editorial

[ultima ratio]

Portugal: Hindu ceremony at Fatima

Summary : In October and November of last year, DICI revealed the threat of an inter-religious center being built at Fatima (see DICI n° 83 and n° 85). On May 5, Portuguese television viewers were able to see on the TV channel SIC, around sixty Hindus from Lisbon, led by a high priest, paying homage to the goddess of nature in the Chapel of the Apparitions at Fatima.

The SIC journalist gave a description of the Hindus, gathered in their temple in the Portuguese capital, to pray and worship the different statues of Hindu gods. Then, having arrived at Fatima, the “pilgrims” headed for the Chapel of the Apparitions, where their priest presided over the recitation of prayers. Here is the telecaster’s commentary: “This is a unique and unprecedented moment in the history of the shrine. The Hindu priest, or Sha Tri, recites at the altar the Shaniti Pa, the prayer for peace. The Hindus can be seen removing their shoes, before approaching the rails of the sanctuary.” During the coverage, the rector of the sanctuary, Fr. Luciano Guerra declared: “These encounters give us occasion to remember that we live in a community”. (sic)

After having worshiped their gods and prayed in the chapel, the Hindus were conducted to an exhibition room, where there is a scale model of the future inter-religious basilica, in the process of being built. There, each one of them was personally welcomed by the bishop of Leira-Fatima, who bowed before the Hindu priest in response to his greeting. The Hindu priest then robed the rector of the sanctuary and the bishop of Fatima in the shawl of Hindu priests. The telecaster’s commentary: “Upon the shoulders of the highest representatives of the Church in Fatima, the Hindu priest places a shawl, bearing inscriptions from the Bagavad Gita, one of Hinduism’s sacred books.”

The report concluded with images showing a Hindu priest lighting a candle in the sanctuary, while his disciples danced outside the Chapel of the Apparitions, singing praises to their gods. The commentator ended with these words: “In 1982, a guru, a Hindu high priest, came from Bombay to Fatima. He signed the golden book immediately after Pope John Paul II and on the same page as Mother Teresa of Calcutta.”

In justification of his actions, the bishop of the diocese of Leira-Fatima, Mgr. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, declared to a local newspaper: “We do not wish to be fundamentalists, but to be sincere and honest.”

[gbcdoj]

Pius XII never placed liberals in positions of power as you say.

Fr. Bugnini.

[ultima ratio]

Bugnini, yes. But Pius was old and entitled to a single mistake, especially since the man kept his real intentions under cover. You want to smear Pius to cut the conciliar popes some slack. It won't work--anymore than claiming Pius was indifferent to the fate of the Jews--a different kind of smear. Pius XII was the last great and wise pope. He saw what was coming and warned of it. The other three--I excuse JPI--were liberal disasters who were not good stewards. They left (or are about to leave) the Church vastly weakened.

[pro Athanasius]

Here is a nice Novus Ordo source for you Lee Penn of New Oxford Review hardly a bastion of traditionalism. He has the good sense to see that something is "rotten in Denmark" when are the conservative's going to wake up and see what all of this false ecumenism is doing to the Church. The conciliar authorities have set their path and its not the same one you seem to think it is. I know this shocks you that the possibility that this really happened but its time for people to wake up and say NO to the Vatican on these novelties. We have got to tell them not one penny of our money will go to support this syncratistic addition to the Fatima Shrine.

Despite Official Denials, Fatima Shrine Seems Headed On Interfaith Path


Report/Analysis By Lee Penn
The Christian Challenge (Washington, DC)
May 30, 2004

Ideas of "mingling" and "converging" religions are hardly new, but it is
startling to find them at Portugal's famed Roman Catholic shrine at Fatima.

Nonetheless, such ideas appear to be taking hold at Fatima, despite official
denials and claims that hardline traditional Catholics are stirring unfounded
controversy over Fatima. Even more surprising, perhaps, is that the trends do
not appear to be opposed--so far--by Pope John Paul II.

Fatima is the site where the Catholic Church says an Angel of Peace and the
Virgin Mary appeared to three children on several occasions in 1916 and 1917,
giving them messages for the Church and the faithful, and calling all to
conversion, repentance, and prayer. Two of the three Fatima visionaries, who died
soon after the apparitions, have been canonized by Pope John Paul II. One
visionary, Sister Lucy, is still living; she is a cloistered nun.

The controversy surrounding the Roman Catholic shrine at Fatima began in the
fall of 2003, when a Portuguese newspaper reported that the site would be
remade into an interfaith shrine. Catholic officials denied the assertion, saying
that the shrine will retain its Catholic, Marian focus.

But in early May this year, a Hindu priest worshiped his faith's gods at the
altar of Fatima's Chapel of the Appartions, and he clothed the shrine's rector
and the diocesan bishop in Hindu priests' vestments.

Reporting on the Hindu service on May 5, the Portuguese broadcast news
services SIC and SIC Notícias said that the Hindu priest chanted prayers from the
altar, on behalf of 60 Hindu pilgrims who gathered before him, outside the altar
rail. A local television reporter explained, "This is an unprecedented
unique moment in the history of the shrine. The Hindu priest, or Sha Tri, [prayed]
on the altar the Shaniti Pa, the prayer for peace."

Additionally, the news report showed "scenes of the Hindu priest lighting a
candle at the shrine while his followers [danced] outside the Chapel of the
Apparitions chanting praises to their gods."

The TV broadcast showed that after the service, each of the Hindus was
"personally greeted by the [Roman Catholic] Bishop of Leiria-Fátima," who then
"bowed to the Hindu priest repeating his gesture of greeting." The Hindu priest
then clothed the diocesan bishop and Msgr. Luciano Guerra, the rector of the
Fatima shrine, with a Hindu priestly shawl. The reporter told his viewers, "On
the shoulders of the highest representatives of the Church in Fatima, the Hindu
priest [placed] a shawl with the inscriptions of the Bagavad Gita, one of the
sacred books of Hinduism."

The two Catholic dignitaries explained these events with rhetoric reminiscent
of that used by Frank Griswold, the Presiding Bishop of the U.S. Episcopal
Church. Fr. Guerra said during the broadcast that: "These meetings give us the
opportunity to remind ourselves that we live in community." And the diocesan
bishop, D. Serafim Ferreira e Silva, told a local newspaper: "We don't want to
be fundamentalist, but sincere and honest." The only Griswoldian buzzwords
they forgot were "reconciliation" and "inclusive."

A CONFERENCE sponsored by the Fatima shrine last October 10-12 demonstrates
that the Hindu service was hardly an inadvertent event. Titled "The Present of
Man--The Future of God: The Place of Sanctuaries in Relation to the Sacred,"
the conference was attended by an array of prominent Catholics. They included
Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald, president of the Pontifical Council for
Interreligious Dialogue; Cardinal José da Cruz Policarpo, the Roman Catholic patriarch
of Lisbon; Fr. Jacques Dupuis, professor of theology at Rome's Gregorian
University; and the aforementioned Bishop Silva, and Msgr. Guerra, rector of the
shrine.

The event occurred at the Paul VI Pastoral Center adjacent to the shrine, and
was opened by Bishop Silva. The rector of the shrine said in December 2003
that the meeting was inspired by "the reading of the message of Fatima…within
the spirit of Vatican II."

Adherents of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), traditionalist followers of
the excommunicated Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, protested at the meeting site.
Msgr. Guerra said in a January 2004 interview that the SSPX demonstrators
"behaved very badly. Instead of listening first and talking later, they began
immediately distributing leaflets."

But some Catholics will think the Lefebvrites had reason to protest. The
Belgian Jesuit theologian Fr. Dupuis told the conference October 11 that "we
should not refer to the other religions as 'non-Christian', since this is a
negative term that describes them by what we think they are not. Rather…we should
refer to them as 'the others'."

Dupuis added that "Christians and 'the others' are co-members of the Reign of
God in history," and that "the Holy Spirit is present and operative in the
sacred books of Hinduism or of Buddhism," as well as in "the sacred rites of
Hinduism."

"The universality of God's kingdom permits this," he declared, "and this is
nothing more than a diversified form of sharing in the same mystery of
salvation." Dupuis predicted that "The religion of the future will be a general
converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all."

An eyewitness to the conference, John Vennari, a traditionalist Catholic,
reported that almost everyone present, including the Catholic hierarchs,
vigorously applauded Dupuis' speech. This occurred despite a 2001 warning by the
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, the Vatican theological watchdog, that
a recent book by Dupuis on religious pluralism erred with certain ambiguities
and inadequate explanations relating to five doctrinal points.

The next day, Sunday, October 12, Archbishop Fitzgerald praised Fr. Dupuis'
speech, saying the cleric had "explained the theological basis of the
establishment of relations with people of other religions."

Fitzgerald averred that "The Church is there to recognize the holiness that
is in other people, the elements of truth, grace and beauty that are in
different religions," and "to try to bring about a greater peace and harmony among
people of other religions."

These novel statements on the Church's mission are significant, since they
come from the head of the Vatican department in charge of inter-religious
dialogue.

Many of the conference speeches were in Portuguese, but the speeches by
Dupuis and Fitzgerald were in English. These two speeches were recorded in person
by Mr. Vennari.

On the same day that Fitzgerald spoke, "Father Arul Irudayam, rector of the
Marian Shrine Basilica in Vailankanni, India … rejoiced that, as a further
development of interreligious practice, the Hindus now perform their religious
rituals in the church," according to Vennari.

In his November 2003 report on the conference, Vennari accurately predicted
that "it is only a matter of time before this blasphemy takes place at Fatima."


DEBUNKERS of the reports about interfaith excesses at Fatima have noted that
stories of these activities have appeared in a little-noticed Portuguese
English-language weekly, Front Page Online, and in traditionalist Catholic
publications that are vehemently opposed to the direction taken by the Catholic Church
since Vatican II.

But Vennari pointed out that the October 24, 2003, issue of "the local Fatima
weekly newspaper, Notícias de Fatima, which is friendly with the Fatima
Shrine," reported on the interfaith conference "under the headline, 'Sanctuary of
Various Creeds'…The front page featured the caption, 'The future of Fatima must
pass through the creation of a Shrine where different religions can mingle.'"
The statement paralleled one attributed to Shrine Rector Msgr. Guerra by
Front Page Online last November.

Page 8 of the same issue of Noticias de Fatima ran the headline, "Sanctuary
Opens Itself to Religious Pluralism" followed by the subheading: "The Shrine of
Fatima Assumes a Universalist and Welcoming Vocation Towards Different
Religions."

Notícias de Fatima then quoted Msgr. Guerra as saying that: "This proposal of
coexistence - also in Fatima - of a religious pluralism is still embryonic.
It's the first step. We are like the engineers in Portugal who begin by
examining the structures of the bridges to see if we can trust them in the future."
This assertion by Guerra also was included in the Front Page Online coverage.

According to Noticias de Fatima, Msgr. Guerra further pointed out that the
very fact that Fatima is the name of a Muslim and Mohammed's daughter is
indicative that the shrine must be open to the co-existence of various faiths and
beliefs. "Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin
Mary that this comes about this way," he was quoted as saying.

Traditional Catholics in opposition were described by Guerra as "old
fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs."

Church spokesmen have blamed recent controversy over Fatima on
publicity-seeking by Fr. Nicholas Gruner, a traditionalist Catholic priest who was suspended
by the Vatican in 1996 for disobedience, and who continues to publicly state
that the Catholic hierarchy has ignored or falsified the requests made by the
Virgin Mary in her Fatima apparitions. Additionally, according to the rector
of the shrine, "the great majority, perhaps the totality, of the reactions
received is the result of a long orchestration, centered in the United States, by
people bitterly opposed to Vatican Council II, specifically to what pertains
to a wider opening of the Church, with emphasis on the ecumenical and
inter-faith dialogue." However, reporter John Vennari, who acknowledged that he
visited the October 2003 interfaith conference at the behest of Gruner's
organization, said that "no one from Fr. Gruner's organization had anything to do with
the articles" that appeared in Front Page Online and in Notícias de Fatima.

And, since word of the interfaith trends at Fatima first emerged last fall,
attempted reassurances by officials at the Vatican and the shrine have been
undercut by clearly contradictory messages, and no one has denied or retracted
the statements attributed above to Dupuis, Guerra, and Fitzgerald during the
October interfaith conference.

Archbishop Fitzgerald described the October 2003 conference as "part of an
ongoing reflection" on the sanctuary's "inter-religious dimension" in the Church
and the modern world," and said that "there were no practical conclusions
arising from the meeting."

Last November, he declared that "There is no question of the Fatima
sanctuary becoming an inter-faith pilgrimage center…This is a place of prayer centered
on Our Lady, and everyone is welcome."

But in late 2003, Archbishop Fitzgerald told Zenit (a Catholic news service)
that "we must learn to journey together, for if we drift apart we do ourselves
harm, but if we walk together we can help one another to reach the goal that
God has set for us."

A large new church, conceived in a stark modern style, is being built at
Fatima to accommodate 9,000 pilgrims at a time. The design by a Greek Orthodox
architect, Alexandros Tombazis, has received the approval of the diocesan bishop,
and construction is to begin soon. In a December 28, 2003 statement, the
rector of the Fatima shrine said that the new church will be "exclusively destined
to be a place of Catholic worship, located not next to the current basilica,
but between the Cruz Alta and a national road and, when opportune ... can
receive pilgrims of other convictions who wish to fraternally partake in our way
of prayer."

On March 9, 2004, the Pope personally gave the rector of the Fatima shrine a
stone fragment from the tomb of St. Peter; this relic will be formally placed
as the cornerstone of the new basilica on June 6. Thus, the new basilica is
proceeding with the highest blessing from the Vatican.

In an interview with Zenit, published on May 13, 2004, the Bishop of
Leiria-Fatima said that the new church at the shrine "will be a Catholic one, much
like the Pius X Church in Lourdes … As with any Catholic church, it will be open
to all, but the services held there will be Catholic." The Bishop dismissed
concerns over interfaith worship at Fatima as "a controversy caused by a few
foreigners."

But in his December 28, 2003 communiqué, Msgr. Guerra asserted that the
Fatima apparitions included "at least two implicit calls to the exercise of the
spirit of dialogue with persons of other convictions." These calls included "the
message of the Angel of Peace," regarding the Oriental, Orthodox, and
Catholic Churches, and, "in regard to the Islamic religion, in the name itself that
God chose for the town where Mary would one day appear: Fatima."

It was Guerra who earlier assured an interviewer that: "We are very far from
having Hindus or any Muslims pray in Fatima, except if they do it in private -
not in public liturgies or other such services."

---

Permission to circulate the foregoing electronically is permitted provided
that THE CHRISTIAN CHALLENGE is credited and there are no changes in the text.
To learn more about the CHALLENGE, please visit: http://www.occfgroup.org/tcc/




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[narses]

Our Lady of Fatima Ping.

[Coleus]

Didn't Mother Theresa worship there with the Hindu's or participated in a Hindu service in India? I thought I read that she did.

[AskStPhilomena]

Mother Teresa may not have been entirely orthodox, as the following article explains:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a013htMotherTeresa.htm
but then we should remember that "charity covers a multitude of sins".
In addition to the Hindus, we know that the Dalai Lama was also hosted at Fatima:
http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/b005ht.htm
After the horrors of Assisi 1 and 2, none of this Fatima news should come as any surprise.

[ultima ratio]

What is even more reprehensible is that those dogmas which distinguish Catholics from other Christians--which were handed-down from Christ and his apostles--are being deliberately suppressed and even subverted to diminish the perception of any but minor differences. This is the motivating force behind the Novus Ordo. Now this same homogenizing agenda is being extended to include non-Christian religions.

[Polycarp IV]

Here is a nice Novus Ordo source for you Lee Penn of New Oxford Review hardly a bastion of traditionalism.

LOL! That would be news to Lee!

He only attends the Byzantine Divine liturgy, and would be more likely to go over to Eastern Orthodoxy than Novus Ordo Catholicism.

And NOR is very critical of the post-conciliar Church's lunacies.

You probably missed their articles highly critical of JPII and the hierarchy in general lately?

[Polycarp IV]

Portugal: Hindu Ceremony at Fatima

The Abomination of Desolation certainly appears to have entered the Fatima sanctuary.

Its one thing to converse with non-Christian religions, and recognize what "truths" may be found within their philosophies. Its another thing altogether to allow them to perform religious ceremonies within the sanctuary.

Seems to me this Church will need to be purified and re consecrated following this?

[ultima ratio]

I agree. If one wishes to show friendship or solidarity against the forces of atheism, let Catholic prelates invite Hindu priests to lunch--or organize a conference--or dialogue with them to their hearts' content in some religiously neutral environment. But we don't owe them our sacred altars in violation of the First Commandment.

[kstewskis]

And why won't this same bishop--who permitted Hindu priests to worship their gods at a Catholic altar and who bowed politely to Hindu priests and who allowed himself to be wrapped in a Hindu Bagavad Gita-inscribed shawl--allow a Tridentine Mass to be said in his diocese?

Flat out, he has got to be an infiltrator, "sent" to help destroy The Church. At least "the enemy" is exposing (it)self.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

According to Noticias de Fatima, Msgr. Guerra further pointed out that the very fact that Fatima is the name of a Muslim and Mohammed's daughter is indicative that the shrine must be open to the co-existence of various faiths and beliefs. "Therefore we must assume that it was the will of the Blessed Virgin Mary that this comes about this way," he was quoted as saying.

For me, this is the worst part. Once the Muslims hold a service inside anyone else's religious building, the building becomes Muslim.

[Polycarp IV]

However, I'll defer making a decision until this makes its way into traditional Catholic conduits like Zenit and other sources.

That's reasonable. But however much I disagree with the methods and schizmatic tendencies of John Vennari, one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events. While I wouldn't put anything beyong Fr. Gruner, I doubt Vennari is engaging in wholesale fraud.

The hyperventilation in this thread seems to suggest an agenda.

I certainly have no agenda. I do not trust the Grunerites myself.

That said, I think the mainstream media in Portugal HAS reported on this, which should be enough at present to establish SOMETHING untoward happened at the Fatima shrine.

[little jeremiah]

Thanks for the ping - too bad these Hindus haven't studied and followed the teachings in their Bhagavad Gitas. Note these verses condemning the worship of demigods:

Chapter 7 Text 20-23:
Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.

I am in everyone's heart as the Supersoul. As soon as one desires to worship the demigods, I make his faith steady so that he can devote himself to some particular deity.

Endowed with such a faith, he seeks favors of a particular demigod and obtains his desires. But in actuality these benefits are bestowed by Me alone.

Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees [bhaktas = worshippers] ultimately reach My supreme planet [beyond the material universe; the Kingdom of God].

[Polycarp IV]

one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events

Correction:

...one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events in order to deny what is being reported.

[little jeremiah]

To explain further, the demigods mentioned in the Bhagavad Gita are the "gods" that many Hindus are seen to worship, and these "gods" *might* be compared to angels in Christian understanding. (I don't want to disrespect angels, so this may not be an accurate assumption.)

The various demigods are empowered or deputed agents of God, whose duty it is to maintain the funtioning of the material world, and they therefore have majestic powers to control every aspect of the functioning of this universe. They consider them selves as humble servants of God. Any energy or potency they have is directly coming from God, just as any energy or power anyone has is coming from God; we do not create our own bodies or mental or physical strength - everything is a gift from God.

That said, the demigods also have a (very long) life span and eventually must die, as must all created beings. Their bodies are made of material elements, as ours are. Worshipping them (as apparently happened at Fatima) is like bribing government officials - it just isn't recommended, and is clearly condemned by God Himself.

Hinduism is in essence monotheistic - but unfortunately many Hindus have lost the essence of their own scriptures and ancient traditions.

[ultima ratio]

What makes you think Zenit--or the Vatican--is a reliable source? Rome has been caught lying over and over--the last time when it denied it's own e-mails to journalists--which were traced to its own computers--regarding The Passion.
And while it's true Fatima is private revelation, Catholic altars are still Catholic altars. The issue isn't whether Fatima is authentic or not, though it is an authentic Catholic shrine which has been venerated by all recent popes, but whether OUR CATHOLIC ALTARS are to be allowed to be used by Hindu priests in their worship of pagan gods. Try to stick to the issue.

[ultima ratio]

"But however much I disagree with the methods and schizmatic tendencies of John Vennari, one must hold he is lying through his teeth in reporting these events."

What is far more telling is not that the Vatican is confirming the report, but that it is not denying it. Nor is the Bishop of Fatima denying the reports. No one is calling Vennari or the Portuguese press or SSPX's Dici or anyone else liars. They don't accuse them of this--because the report is true.

[Polycarp IV]

To look at this objectively, it must be noted that so far, other than written and internet descriptions, there is no solid "proof" that the Hindus praying in the chapel story is true.

On the other hand, I have yet to read any convincing debunking of the story. It was reported on a mainstream Portugese newspaper's website. They claim it was reported on a Portugese news broadcast.

It should not be that difficult to get copies of that broadcast. Has Vennari done so?

Right now, objectively, given the "proof" offered by both sides, it seems the evidence available supports the claim that Hindus, led by a priest, held a prayer service at the Catholic Chapel at Fatima.

And while the message of Fatima is private revelation and NOT part of the desposit of Faith, such pagan use of a consecrated Catholic Church is simply wrong.

It has happened elsewhere, often enough. Remember the Buddhists at the Catholic Church in the midwest several months ago, who were interupted by SSPXers?

But of course, Fatima holds far greater significance for our times, and thus this story needs to be further substantiated or definitively refutes.

To this date, neither has ocurred.