Cardinal Maida OK's Tridentine Mass for Detroit

Crux News ^ | 3rd June 2004

[broadsword]

Well, from the semi-outside, you have hit the nail on the head. I, for one, would be perfectly happy to have the old rite performed in English. Gut the gay dancing bongo masses and outright heresy from the pupit and total irreverence in the churches are too much to take. For now, I will stick to the lovely indult mass or byzantine mass or ANYTHING officially sanctioned by Rome other than the wacked-out messes where I live. I have been to a Greek Orthodox Mass. It was beautiful. And as to only the old timers understanding it; it only takes some good, reverent parental instruction to get even a small child to understand and then grow up into the deeper understanding and love for a beautiful Mass like yours and ours.

But what an evil abomination it would be to teach our children to love the irreverence and slovenly, base, pedestrian bildge that serves for so many Amchurch Masses.

[Tantumergo]

"That's not true and you know it."

It may be speculation, but its not necessarily "not true".

Why would anybody, after 2,000 years (longer if you count the worship of the Jews in the tabernacle and temple) want to turn the altar around to face the congregation, if they really understood the biblical concept of worship and sacrifice?

The fact that 74% wanted the priest to face them rather than face East, merely illustrates that 74% were malformed in their faith.

People who are malformed in their faith are far more likely to be members of the 80-90% or so who have ceased practicing their faith in the springtime we have had since the Council.

(Admittedly, 80-90% apostasy are the rough figures for the UK - the situation over there in the US may be much better)

[drstevej]

***JPII just doesn't care for the Tridentine Mass***

Too Catholic for him?

[sinkspur]

Too Catholic for him?

No. Maybe he prefers the Novus Ordo. It is the Normative Mass of the Latin Rite.

[broadsword]

...the 80-90% or so who have ceased practicing their faith in the springtime we have had since the Council.

Well put, my friend. And don't forget the many religious orders that have simply died out and the high numbers of active Amchurchers who deny the real presence, and who contracept, divorce and abort at the same rate as the pagans around them. If this abysmal failure is the springtime, I just can't wait for winter! Gee wiz!

[Land of the Irish]

Besides, maybe JPII just doesn't care for the Tridentine Mass; he prefers the Novus Ordo.

Yeah, I guess maybe he's just another material pope for the material world.

[broadsword]

You are right, of course. It is the noRMatIve MaSs.

And what a reverent beauty it is! Oh, how blessed we are in this new springtime of the Church, where our priests are held in such high esteem and children are safe from predation and religious orders flourish and grow along with pious devotions. Oh, how wonderful the druid-robed altar girls yawning while the priest bumbles on through his feminist-inspired ad-libs and the liturgical dancers perform their very inclusive undulations.

(sigh) So wonderful! So rich!

[sinkspur]

Why would anybody, after 2,000 years (longer if you count the worship of the Jews in the tabernacle and temple) want to turn the altar around to face the congregation, if they really understood the biblical concept of worship and sacrifice?

Did the Lord turn His back on His apostles at the Last Supper?

If we are "doing this in Memory of Me," it makes sense to gather in the faithful, as Jesus did.

In fact, if you know how the Eucharist was celebrated in the Early Church, you know that it was not done in imitation of Melchisedech.

The fact that 74% wanted the priest to face them rather than face East, merely illustrates that 74% were malformed in their faith.

With all due respect, those who prefer the current manner of celebration are not, by that preference, "malformed in the faith."

You know the Didache, do you not?

[broadsword]

ROTFLOL!

I can see a panicking Hudson from Aliens pointing at Madonna and saying, "Why don't you make her pope?"

[sinkspur]

where our priests are held in such high esteem and children are safe from predation

The worst sexual abusers were all ordained in the pre-Vatican II Church.

[dsc]

"That's not true and you know it."

It *is* true, and you know it.

[broadsword]

The worst sexual abusers were all ordained in the pre-Vatican II Church.

And they were held in check by the strictness of the Church until your ANYTHING-GOES! became the normative mess.

Hey! Itth thpringtime, boyth!

Furthermore, how can you speak so clearly and authoritatively for all of your sexual predators? Do you know all of them personally?

[Salvation]

Going back to the beginning of celebrations of Mass when the disciples would meet for the Eucharist in addition to their Jewish rituals, it is hard for me to visualize that whoever was celebrating the Eucharist would have their back to the other people in these home churches.

Maybe we all need to stop and think -- it's common sense!

[drstevej]

***Maybe he prefers the Novus Ordo.***

Isn't that a sad thought.

[broadsword]

Perhaps not, but the Church DID reverently do it that way for at least three quarters of its long history, and it wasn't until the ANYTHING GOES! Mass became the norm that the visible Church began to flounder and falter, with countless souls lost to the pagan world as a result.

[drstevej]

***Going back to the beginning of celebrations of Mass when the disciples would meet for the Eucharist in addition to their Jewish rituals, it is hard for me to visualize that whoever was celebrating the Eucharist would have their back to the other people in these home churches.***

So the Tridentine Mass had it wrong?

Home churches.... how many home churches that hold mass today?

[sinkspur]

Isn't that a sad thought.

Not at all. I prefer the Novus Ordo. I have for the last 35 years.

[RFT1]

I am not going to defend the typical Novus Ordo, and my preference would be to go back to the 62 missal with all the 62 Rubrics with the options for some Vernacular, but that said, the point of the link was to show that even the 62 missal could be trashed, and it was starting to be trashed by the same group who picked apart(albiet it was easier to pick apart) the Novus Ordo. Albiet the prayers in the Tridentine mass do point more clearly to the sacrafice, I ask this question, if the 62 missal was kept in place, given the same poor translation the Novus Ordo had, with the rubrics the Novus Ordo is typically celebrated with, would liturgical life in the church be all that much better today?

[sinkspur]

And they were held in check by the strictness of the Church until your ANYTHING-GOES! became the normative mess.

Actually, they weren't. Shanley, Geoghan, and Porter all started abusing a few months after ordination.

Prior to Vatican II.

[drstevej]

I thought we Protestants were the preference driven folk!

Is the Novus Ordo more congruent with Catholic doctrine than the Tridentine? Seems like that is the key.