Cardinal Maida OK's Tridentine Mass for Detroit

Crux News ^ | 3rd June 2004

[AskStPhilomena]

In his explanation for the decision, Maida cited the growing influence of schismatic groups within his archdiocese.

"We have much activity by schismatic churches in the Archdiocese. We have children in our Archdiocese attending schismatic schools and being drawn away from the Church. Some of our faithful are crossing the border to go into Windsor or other dioceses for the celebration of this Mass," the cardinal is quoted as stating.

Maida did not mention at the meeting that in addition to laity joining schismatic groups, he is also faced with a major emigration of seminarians from the archdiocese, and the crisis shows no signs of abating. In the year 2007 there is only one man scheduled to be ordained for the Archdiocese of Detroit, a native-born Filipino.

During the meeting Auxiliary Bishop Walter Hurley said the Tridentine Mass may be allowed in two parishes before the fall, but neither the parishes nor the frequency of the Masses has been decided.

Hurley is quoted as stating, "We are not looking to catechize new generations into the Tridentine Rite, but we are seeking to respond to those people who have identified this as a pastoral need In moving in this direction, there are certain things that must take place as we proceed. The first is that Vatican II, its authenticity, and its liturgical reforms have to be accepted as a legitimate work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the Church. We do not want to set up something that would be divisive. We are not seeking to undermine or unravel the reforms of the Council."

The celebration of the Tridentine Mass will be coordinated under the auspices of the Archdiocesan Worship Office. "We do not want to see this as a work of a specific group of people, but rather an extension of Cardinal Maida's ministry as chief shepherd of the Archdiocese," Hurley is quoted as saying. "… All of our regional auxiliary bishops have indicated their willingness to celebrate this liturgy. The framework here is pastoral. We will not identify this as a "specific niche" of a parish; rather, this is simply something that would be offered at a parish."

The decision has been met with guarded optimism by those who have worked for the Tridentine Rite in the archdiocese, mainly because the rite – until now -- has been bitterly opposed by Maida and his chancery since Maida arrived as archbishop in Detroit in 1990. Additionally, the auxiliary bishop and chancery staff who are implementing his new decision are long-time chancery veterans who have no track record whatsoever of embracing traditional initiatives.

Many suspect the Tridentine Mass may be sparingly offered at small parishes in inconvenient locations, perhaps even in parishes hostile to traditional aspirations.

For at least the last 15 years there have been hundreds, if not thousands of requests to Maida to grant permission for the Tridentine Mass. A group of Catholics in the early 1990s filed a canonical lawsuit in the Signatura, the Vatican Court, to force Cardinal Maida to abide by Eccleiasia Dei, in which Pope John Paul II pleaded with the world’s bishops to allow a "generous application" of the indult for the Tridentine Mass. The St. Joseph Foundation assisted in that effort.

Maida opposed the lawsuit vigorously, and the legal effort ended when the Vatican ruled that with the death in 1994 of Thomas Marshall, the main signer of the complaint, the rest of signers of the petition to Rome had no standing to pursue the case.

It is noteworthy that the primary opponent of the Tridentine Mass at that time was Fr. Gerald Shirilla, professor at Sacred Heart Major Seminary and director of the Worship Department. Fr.Shirilla told a reporter for the Michigan Catholic that, regarding those who want the Tridentine Mass, "We have to fight them tooth and nail."

Fr. Shirilla was relieved of his post in 1993 when he was identified as a serial child molester, who favored young altar boys, going back more than 20 years. He never quite lost favor with Cardinal Maida, however, and was secretly re-assigned seven years later as pastor of a parish in the Diocese of Gaylord, Michigan.

Meanwhile, as the cardinal and his priests argue about the merits of the Tridentine Mass, the Detroit chapter of gay organization Dignity continues to hold its weekly Masses at Marygrove College every Sunday, and openly advertises that priests of the archdiocese celebrate its Masses. Priests of the archdiocese have never been forbidden to celebrate those gay Masses.

Cardinal Maida has always had different standards for different groups throughout his tenure in Detroit.

[ninenot]

In his encyclical (?) on the Sacrament of Penance, JPII made a stunning observation about the need for reconciliation, and how lack thereof was directly related to Babel.

You found the same trail. Babel is the symbol of egoism, the lack of repentance/reconciliation, the ME writ large. To some extent, that fits the NO's modus celebrandi and certainly its committee-authors.

[ninenot]

even though I'm by no means the first to identify a link between liturgical abuse (including opposition to the traditional Latin Mass) and disordered sexuality.

They weren't the first.

E Michael Jones, in the old Fidelity (now Culture Wars) made the connection about 15-20 years ago.

Although it's a VERY interesting thesis, it's not tautological, and it could very easily be expanded to include the Clinton betrayals--of wife AND country as a similar, hetero, theory.

It's my experience that the theory is quite good.

Only refinement I would add is that contrite and repentant queers (and heteros) are generally not prone to the syndrome described by Jones, et al.

[broadsword]

Yep. We poor Catholics are wandering around the Missal of Babel.

Two people here made some statements on this thread that struck me rather strongly:

1. That the Tridintine and NO are not different rites, but different liturgies.

I hadn't thought of that, but it is exactly right. But, oh, how much those different liturgies affect people's faith and the Church's unity.

2. That the Pope simply forcing a return to the old liturgy would not solve all the Church's problems.

True again, but it would solve some of them, and, perhaps, set us once again on the right course. But discipline is, perhaps, a bigger issue. A good friend of mine told me, the other night, that JPII sees the devastation, and is setting the stage via his encyclicals for a disciplinarian in the future to do the job that he could not in these intractable times. I hope my friend is right, but I have trouble seeing it that way.

I wish I could feel better about how things are right now, but all I can do is hold onto that tiny remnant of Catholic faith where it can be found under the scandalous amorphous Amchurch morass. It is a terrible sorrow that the hardest thing for a Catholic to do is to find a priest and a parish that is actually Catholic.

[patent]

Validity means very little.

The validity of the Mass means very little? A valid Mass is reprehensible to the Holy Spirit?

You have very strange theology, ultima. Very strange.

Of course, the reality is that you said something foolish and revealed your true stripes, and as usual you can’t simply admit error, so you backpeddle and make more foolish statements.

You object to Philomena's characterization--yet you call her a schismatic trad.

Hey, shoe fits, wear it.

I would say she is on the whole more on target than you, given your past whacky ideas about what constitutes schism.

My past wacky ideas about schism? As I’ve posted here in the past, I define schism as withdrawing from submission to the Pope or withdrawing from communion with the members of the Church who remain subject to him. Care to explain what is wacky about that?

patent

[patent]

Courts will find ways around statutes of limitations, as will legislatures, things like this:

Legislatures don’t find ways around SOLs, they define them. If they want to change the definition, they do. It is the Courts that have to work with, or around them.

As to the remainder of my post, I think you have some confusion about what you are posting. It is consistent with what I said. In this case you have a three year statute of limitations, but the legislature said it doesn’t start running the day you are injured, but rather on the day you realize you are injured. It is still the legislature that sets the time period.

In this case they decided to set it so that the Courts had flexibility. So, in this case the court doesn't work around the SOL, but has freedom to move within it.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

It seems my comments were a bit too close to the bone - even though I'm by no means the first to identify a link between liturgical abuse (including opposition to the traditional Latin Mass) and disordered sexuality.

Two things. First, that isn’t what I called you on. I called you on your pathetic attempt to tar and feather posters here with that same brush. Second, the mere fact that some other type has done it before hardly makes it right.

patent

[broadsword]

Looks like YOU are the one doing the tarring and feathering.

[NYer]

So you can hear the priest in the Maronite Mass?

Lol ... of course! The entire liturgy is chanted. Most of the melodies and text go back to the first centuries of christianity..

If you watched the canonization mass from Rome 3 weeks ago, there were 2 deacons who read the gospel. The first deacon read it in Latin; the 2nd was a Maronite deacon who chanted the gospel in Arabic. As in all Maronite liturgies, after reading the gospel, the priest (or the deacon) elevates the Book of the Gospels while proclaiming, "This is the Truth!". He then blesses the congregants with the Book, itself. At the canonization mass, a Maronite choir sang:

Praise, Thanksgiving and Blessing to Jesus Christ, our Lord
for giving us His words of life
Praise, Thanksgiving and Blessing to Jesus Christ, our Lord

The Maronite Liturgy, like many Eastern Rites, retains the Trisagion. The Western Rites are beginning to incorporate it into their prayers, as well. If you pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet, you will note that the chaplet ends with the Trisagion - Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One. Have mercy on us.

In the Maronite liturgy, the priest faces the Tabernacle, as he chants the Trisagion 3 times, in Aramaic. As he completes each pronouncement, he makes a profound bow towards the Tabernacle.

Qadeeshat aloho; Qadeeshat hyeltono; Qadeeshat lomoyouto.
The congregation responds: Itraham alein.

[Kolokotronis]

"When our new bishop was installed here, the ceremony began with an outright pagan American-Indian ceremony before the mass, in the cathedral! I couldn't get in, but my friend was there and said it was terrible. A representative from the Vatican witnessed the whole thing and had nothing negative to say about it. In fact, the pagan priestess/shaman/medicine woman/whatever led the procession of priests and bishops into the church. Hideous."

What you describe isn't simply hideous, its heresy pure and simple. Canon after canon from Council after Council have condemned and forbidden this syncretism. How can the Pope of Rome allow this? Our Archbishops, let alone the the Eastern Patriarchs would never allow this in the Temple. What has the Roman Church become? I think I'd be afraid to have anything to do with communion with such people!

[sinkspur]

Just stop.

[NYer]

And from our usual Sunday Divine Liturgy, the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostomos

Just beautiful! Does your church also pray the Akathist Hymn to the Blessed Mother?

[Kolokotronis]

All through Great Lent on Friday evenings and of course during the Dormition Fast! It is my wife's favorite. I love it too, but for me, the Presanctified Liturgies on Wednesdays in Great Lent are my favorite. I haven't missed being in the altar or at the Psaltis' stand for one in years (health permitting!).

[NYer]

All through Great Lent on Friday evenings

I posted the Akathist Hymn to this forum, during Great Lent. It is truly beautiful to read; I can only imagine how it must sound when chanted.

In our parish, Friday evenings during Great Lent, we have Adoration of the Cross, when we pray to the 5 wounds of Christ. It concludes with a truly moving chant "O My Son", that usually movess all of the women to tears.

[broadsword]

What you describe isn't simply hideous, its heresy pure and simple.

Yeah. She had everybody turn to face "the spirit of the east wind", and then raised a pall of some horrid smoking weed while chanting some pagan nonsense to her false gods. Then she repeated for all three other "wind spirits (demons)", ending with all the Catholics turning their backs on the tabernacle. Needless to say, my friend refused to engage in this evil ritual. He was nearly alone in that.

[drstevej]

can we set aside the personal stuff???

pretty please ???

[narses]

Courts decide LAW always and facts when no jury is present. Courts decide WHEN the SOL starts and what tolls it. Trust me, when a JUDGE wants something, he gets it.

[narses]

can we set aside the personal stuff???

What would Our Lord ask of us? Charity? Love? There are real reasons to be passionate about what we believe, but if we believe that Our Lord is God, we ought to do as He asks us to. Love one another as we love ourselves.

[ultima ratio]

No--you are the one with a limited understanding. My stating that the Novus Ordo is valid is consistent with what I--and most traditionalists--believe. A Mass is valid if Transubstantiation takes place. But the same Mass may still be harmful to the faith. That is the case with the Novus Ordo which dangerously subverts Catholic dogmas. Indeed, even prominent theologians have weighed-in on the many deficiencies of the Novus Ordo--including Cardinal Ratzinger who ascribes to its introduction the calamities that befell the Church shortly thereafter.

As for your whacky ideas about schism--you get the definition right, but you ascribe it wrongly out of prejudice. You seem to think that a schism takes place merely because a pope says so in a letter, whether or not such an act has ever objectively taken place. It would be a strange kind of Church if that could happen unilaterally, at the mere surmise of the Pope. But whether or not one is schismatic depends upon whether one had committed a schismatic offense, not on whether the Pope has said so. To believe otherwise is not Catholicism, it is pope-worship.

[patent]

>>>>Courts decide LAW always and facts when no jury is present. Courts decide WHEN the SOL starts and what tolls it. Trust me, when a JUDGE wants something, he gets it.


Good grief narses. Your trying to educate me on something that I am qualified to teach about. I give up, you have your view, and it isn't worth trying to deal with it.

patent

[drstevej]

I love passionate debate of ideas and beliefs. Don't want that stopped. It doesn't have to be perssonal, but it is easy for it to degenerate to that. I am often guilty and need the same reminder