Sacred Scripture and Outside the Church There is NO Salvation

Catholic Family News ^ | June 2004 | Jacob Michael

[PleaseNoMore]

I think it is sad to rely on man to interpret it for you. The promise of the Holy Spirit is to each and every person who will receive Him, not just the Pope.

[conservonator]

I will never understand why you are so hung up on this. We read and believe the very same scripture about this. This is just incredible to me.

What is incredible is that you and I can read the exact same thing and come away with two very different understandings of what we have both read. If you don't find this significant than how can you have any problem with the way JW's understand the nature of Christ or how Mormons practice baptism.

We read the very same scripture but our beliefs on significant portions are, at times, at odds. This "diversity" of understanding on basic dogma is not born of Christ.

[William Terrell]

The Old Testament is packed with prophesies of God related to the Israelites, all tribes, including Judah. The New Testament is lacking in prophesies of God relating to the Roman Catholic Church.

Here's one yet to be fulfilled:

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

I don't see any specification in there that could be interpreted to mean that the children of the House of Israel and the House of Judah must become members of the Roman Catholic Church.

[Fifthmark]

The Holy Ghost is Truth and does not inspire contradiction. If your belief had any basis in reality, then all the sects claiming to be Christian would agree in doctrine and interpretation of Scripture by the fact that they are guided by the Holy Ghost. This is not so. You are in error.

[Fifthmark]

Did Christ not establish a New Covenant fulfilling the Old? Do you think Christians should obey the dietary laws of the Jews? Did not Our Lord say: "Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man: but what cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man"? Did not St. Paul say: "I know, and am confident in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean"? Are you a Jehovah's Witness?

[PleaseNoMore]

No, I am not in error. I do NOT need a man to interpret the scriptures for me. The Holy Spirit is capable of doing that quite well without man's help. I am not under the bondage of religion.

[Fifthmark]

Gee, doesn't Scripture warn about prophecies made through personal interpretation? And the passage from Osee (or Hosea) you quote has been fulfilled: The day of the seed of God, or Jezrahel (Jezreel), has come for they have been united under one head, Christ, and under one Church, the Catholic Church.

[Fifthmark]

"The Holy Ghost does not inspire contradiction."

Is this statement true? If so, then there must be one Truth and one guide to that Truth that precludes personal interpretation of Scripture.

[PleaseNoMore]

There is indeed one Truth and one guide to that Truth and it sure ain't a man. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Light. We are drawn to the Truth, Jesus, by the Holy Spirit. Nor is my salvation subject to man. The bible plainly tells me that the Holy Spirit will give me wisdom and understanding should I seek it.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth..." John 16:13

I am not subject to the Pontiff my friend. I have but One to answer to for my understanding or lack thereof and that is Chrsit.

[William Terrell]

Gee, doesn't Scripture warn about prophecies made through personal interpretation? And the passage from Osee (or Hosea) you quote has been fulfilled: The day of the seed of God, or Jezrahel (Jezreel), has come for they have been united under one head, Christ, and under one Church, the Catholic Church.

The children of Judah and the children of Judah, as numerous as the sand of the sea, are to be reunited. And where was the House of Israel when the reuniting took place? I only recall Judah.

It hasn't happened yet, friend. Israel has been lost since Assyria and Judah has united with no one. Not then, not now. I don't doubt Israel is here, in its multitude, on three continents, but there has been no uniting of they and the present Jews, the remnant of the House of Judah.

Old Testament prophacies for Israel have only been fulfiled for those that need them to be already fulfilled.

[PleaseNoMore]

I have been searching scripture and have not found a single verse requiring one to go through a church to be saved. In fact, the opposite is taught:

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:13

When Jesus died on the cross, He paid the full price for the sins of all mankind. According to God's Word, anyone can go directly to Him for salvation. Jesus Himself announced that:

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 3:36

Jesus preached:

"He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life…" John 5:24

"He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." John 6:47

Jesus repeats this message in John 3:16, 3:18, and 6:40. If the Catholic church really is necessary for salvation, then Jesus Christ is a liar.

Paul gives step by step instructions on how to be saved:

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10

Notice, no church is required. So if your doctrine is right, then the Apostle Paul is also a liar. And since he wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit is a liar as well.

"But as many as received (trusted in) him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name." John 1:12

John says you become God's child by believing in Jesus Christ. If your doctrine is true, then John's name must be added to the list of liars.

Paul, John and Jesus are not liars. Jesus never requires a church for salvation:

"To him (Jesus) give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins." Acts 10:43

The key is belief in Christ, not a church:

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth…" Romans 1:16

According to Paul, Timothy needed faith in Christ to be saved, not a church:

"And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus." 2 Timothy 3:15

When the Philippian prison guard asked Paul, "What must I do to be saved?," did Paul answer, "You must become a member of the Roman Catholic church?" No, he responded:

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved…" Acts 16:31

Remember when Jesus was hanging on the cross? The thief on the cross next to Him cried out:

"…Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom." Luke 23:42

When that dying sinner uttered those words of faith, Jesus responded by saying:

"To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." Luke 23:43

Salvation is in Christ… not in a church.

The catechism claims salvation comes "…through Christ's Catholic Church alone…" But God's Word says it is obtained through Jesus Christ:

"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23

"… God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him." 1 John 4:9

Only Christ can offer us salvation because He alone shed His blood for us. Mary didn't and the church didn't:

"Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him." Romans 5:9

No church can offer salvation. Only Jesus can:

"Neither is there salvation in any other (except Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:10, 12

[Fifthmark]

Well, you managed to quote Scripture ad nauseam and dodge a perfectly good question concerning the contradictions that exist among "Christians." Try cracking open the Second Epistle of St. John and reading about the necessity of professing the Doctrine of Christ. I assure you that it isn't the simplistic belief in Christ that you possess.

For starters, what do you have to "believe?" In merely Christ as God? Or in His Law? Or in His teaching Church that He established and that all Christian history attests to? Or in doing good works? Etc, etc. You can't just yank out pieces of Scripture and attempt to build your theology around them - it's nonsense.

Also, you seem to think that the Church is an impedement to Christ, when instead it is the surest means of following Him and attaining salvation. That is the exact reason He instituted a Church: As a means to carry forth His Revelation throughout the ages with the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that men can be brought to a knowledge of Christ and be made partakers of His divine nature through the Sacraments.

[Fifthmark]

Do you have a point?

[ladyinred]

You seem to set up scenarios that are impossible to answer. Of course I don't in anyway shape or form believe the same way JW's and Mormons do on any issue. I do however agree with Catholic's on most. Since I have recently read a few websites from your Church, this is the same thing one of them repeats a lot about Protestants interpreting scriptures on their own etc. I suppose this is what you are being taught. Because you are being taught that, doesn't make it true, or me unsaved.Having said that, I don't think you are unsaved either.

[Zack Attack]

Did Christ not establish a New Covenant fulfilling the Old?

I would simply say that the Jews were warned by the word of YHWH not to pay heed to anyone who came teaching doctrine foreign to what He had given them.

Yet since you put it that way, did not also the Jerusalem Council rule to abstain from blood?

And no, I am not a JW. I don't have a denomination, but if you seek some kind of classification, I'd say I'm an Israelite believer in Yahoshua the Messiah who seeks to walk by Torah.

[Zack Attack]

Gee, doesn't Scripture warn about prophecies made through personal interpretation?

I would consider that an incorrect personal interpretation. :)

Actually, Peter says that no prophecy in Scripture came about of any private interpretation of the authors, but that the authors were moved by the Spirit to record what was revealed.

And the passage from Osee (or Hosea) you quote has been fulfilled: The day of the seed of God, or Jezrahel (Jezreel), has come for they have been united under one head, Christ, and under one Church, the Catholic Church.

Not yet fulfilled. This is an end-time prophecy coinciding with Ezekiel 37's two-sticks prophecy concerning Israel and Judah being joined together again as one kingdom, the rebuilt Tabernacle of David.

There is also an exodus yet to come which has not taken place. We will know when we see this, because Scripture says it will be so great that it will make people forget the exodus from Egypt.

[PleaseNoMore]

Sorry that scripture nauseates you. It is what I base my beliefs on.

You are presumptuous in your assumptions about my "simplistic beliefs". However, in 2 Corinthians Paul refers specifically to the simplicity in Christ and being deceived by false doctrines. It's not that hard to understand the bible.

I understand the Doctrine of Christ as it is spoken of by John. I understand it subjectively and objectively.

And yes, I believe that the Roman Catholic church is an impediment to Christ. I reject the notion that it is the surest means of salvation.

[Fifthmark]

And yes, I believe that the Roman Catholic church is an impediment to Christ.

Because it impedes your personal theology? Because it rejects the sole authority of Scripture, a notion which no one held prior to the protestant revolt?

[conservonator]

You seem to set up scenarios that are impossible to answer.

There impossible to answer because your trying to answer them from a position that is impossible to reconcile with an objective study of scripture, history and tradition.