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To: Maximilian
"Also, isn't it true that the local bishop forbade them to offer Mass ad orientem?'

I read he did forbid it about one year ago. It makes me wonder.

14 posted on 05/10/2004 9:54:53 AM PDT by johnb2004
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"Is this your first time going to a real Catholic Mass?" James Scott, 59, of Tustin asked a St. Mary's visitor. "Well, this is what it really is. Everything else is garbage."

I consider that remark a slappable offense. Any time in purgatory, would be time well worth spent over giving a slap.

It is PRECISELY this attitude that will turn off many from seeking to attend a Tridentine Mass. "Our mass is perfect, while your mass is crap." The implication is that "Only OUR Eucharist is validly confected." This is PRECISELY why many bishops do not allow for more Tridentine masses.

The hell with Scott. Can't say I like hand-holding during the Our Father but at least the people who do it aren't conceited, as a general rule and have some sense of charity.

Naturally, there are NO CATHOLIC EDITORS at this newspaper, otherwise they'd have a clue that the "Roman rite" isn't the ONLY catholic rite. To say this was the "only way" for "hundreds of years" is plainly wrong.

17 posted on 05/10/2004 10:24:34 AM PDT by gemoftheocean (geez, this is all straight-forward and logical to me....)
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To: johnb2004; maximillian
For your files; Bishop Foley of Birmingham,officially forbad the "ad orientum"pposition approximately four years ago. From my recall and understanding,Mother Angelica's new church was designed with the celebration of the Tridentine Mass in mind. Even the New Order Mass was to be celebrated with the priest facing east,away from the worshippers. As I remembr,the priests always celebrated the mass facing east.

Then came the famous Mahoney pronouncement about how he wished the mass to be in the archdiocese of Los Angeles. Mother questioned his concordance with Rome on her show. Mahoney was furious and she was told to withdraw her criticisms and apologise. She did,in her fashion.

At the same time Mahoney,incensed,I understand,went to Rome and tried to have her pulled off the air,probably using canonical law and calling his allies in the curia to assist him,he was unsuccessful.

He returned to this country and was shooting around garnering support from some B/bishops whose chips he held or who were sympathetic to his ideological agenda. Concomitantly,he tried to wrest control of the station from her using civil law and/or financial mechanisms,rather than church or canon law.He was unable to do that either.

Poor bishop Foley,who had presented many good catechism programs on EWTN must have owed Mahoney one. He wrote a letter to his priests forbidding them to say Mass "ad orientum".This of course,affected all the priests,who celebrated Mass in his diocese which included EWTN's Masses.It was an awful thing to do since as I said earlier,the church was designed with that position in mind.

Mahoney pushed his agenda on the hapless bishops and they passed one of their nasty little nonsense papers forbidding that position. This kind of got tangled up in the "scandal" and remained in question in many dioceses. Many of the priests and B/bishops were looking for relief in this new document the Vatican recently released. The first draft included that as optional to the priest,the final did not. It made me know that no matter how much the B/bishops here may be improving,the ilk of Mahoney still must still have heavy influence in the Vatican. Ugh!!!

Max,have you been on the threads that have talked about the influence of the Vatican's Secretary of State on the hierarchy? This structural change was a result of Vatican II organizational tweaking. I am thinking Sodano is the heavy hitter who's working contrary to some of the orthodox,Catholic Sacred Congregations.

44 posted on 05/10/2004 5:56:48 PM PDT by saradippity
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