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To: johnb2004; maximillian
For your files; Bishop Foley of Birmingham,officially forbad the "ad orientum"pposition approximately four years ago. From my recall and understanding,Mother Angelica's new church was designed with the celebration of the Tridentine Mass in mind. Even the New Order Mass was to be celebrated with the priest facing east,away from the worshippers. As I remembr,the priests always celebrated the mass facing east.

Then came the famous Mahoney pronouncement about how he wished the mass to be in the archdiocese of Los Angeles. Mother questioned his concordance with Rome on her show. Mahoney was furious and she was told to withdraw her criticisms and apologise. She did,in her fashion.

At the same time Mahoney,incensed,I understand,went to Rome and tried to have her pulled off the air,probably using canonical law and calling his allies in the curia to assist him,he was unsuccessful.

He returned to this country and was shooting around garnering support from some B/bishops whose chips he held or who were sympathetic to his ideological agenda. Concomitantly,he tried to wrest control of the station from her using civil law and/or financial mechanisms,rather than church or canon law.He was unable to do that either.

Poor bishop Foley,who had presented many good catechism programs on EWTN must have owed Mahoney one. He wrote a letter to his priests forbidding them to say Mass "ad orientum".This of course,affected all the priests,who celebrated Mass in his diocese which included EWTN's Masses.It was an awful thing to do since as I said earlier,the church was designed with that position in mind.

Mahoney pushed his agenda on the hapless bishops and they passed one of their nasty little nonsense papers forbidding that position. This kind of got tangled up in the "scandal" and remained in question in many dioceses. Many of the priests and B/bishops were looking for relief in this new document the Vatican recently released. The first draft included that as optional to the priest,the final did not. It made me know that no matter how much the B/bishops here may be improving,the ilk of Mahoney still must still have heavy influence in the Vatican. Ugh!!!

Max,have you been on the threads that have talked about the influence of the Vatican's Secretary of State on the hierarchy? This structural change was a result of Vatican II organizational tweaking. I am thinking Sodano is the heavy hitter who's working contrary to some of the orthodox,Catholic Sacred Congregations.

44 posted on 05/10/2004 5:56:48 PM PDT by saradippity
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To: saradippity
That's interesting and disappointing.

I notice, however that Bishop Foley is 74 years old.

48 posted on 05/10/2004 7:45:41 PM PDT by B Knotts
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To: saradippity; Canticle_of_Deborah; sockmonkey
I was told Bishop Foley received a 'clarification' from Rome which said a bishop could not forbid his priests to face God (ad orientem) (this was in 2001?), but that the bishop could forbid the posture being broadcast. I hadn't heard this till recently.

So works the demon and the lackey in L.A.

BTW, Cardinal Mahony isn't Irish -- he was adopted, and only God knows where he came from.

49 posted on 05/10/2004 7:53:10 PM PDT by Siobhan (+Pray the Divine Mercy Chaplet+)
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To: saradippity
Many of the priests and B/bishops were looking for relief in this new document the Vatican recently released. The first draft included that as optional to the priest,the final did not. It made me know that no matter how much the B/bishops here may be improving,the ilk of Mahoney still must still have heavy influence in the Vatican.

What a shame. And what a condemnation of the entire New Mass hierarchy. If they cannot even approve such a simple and uncontroversial thing as Mass ad orientem, then there is no hope for them whatsoever.

the threads that have talked about the influence of the Vatican's Secretary of State on the hierarchy? This structural change was a result of Vatican II organizational tweaking. I am thinking Sodano is the heavy hitter who's working contrary to some of the orthodox,Catholic Sacred Congregations.

Not too much. I have heard this theory before. It's impossible to know whether or not it is true, since the entire theory is based upon secret levers of power in the Vatican. Sodano is often named as the bogeyman, but it seems to be impossible to know whether this is true or not. Besides which, why look for secret agents operating behind the scenes when the guys in the headlines every day are doing as much as they possibly can to push their modernist agenda? I also wonder about the existence of "orthodox,Catholic Sacred Congregations." I don't know of any. Some are very slightly less modernist than the others. But not by much.

52 posted on 05/10/2004 8:24:16 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: saradippity
You may be correct, but what does all that say about the bishop in Alabama? Coward?
63 posted on 05/11/2004 7:49:30 AM PDT by johnb2004
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