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To: LiteKeeper

this answer was as nuanced as john kerrys campaign...what a stretch you make to get there! the plain language of pauls letters is easy to understand, but to support your position you have interpreted it into an unrecognizable mangled heap of theological manure.

regardless, faith demands that we accept that His will and ability are omnipotent, and any way he wants to usher in the last days will do fine. pre or post? whatever! just be ready to be with the Saviour, keep up your faith and pray daily. the Holy Father will take care of the rest


79 posted on 05/13/2004 8:39:39 PM PDT by shotgunjohn
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To: shotgunjohn

So I take it you are a "pan-millenilalist" - don't worry about trying to interpret the clear teaching of Scripture - It will all "pan" out in the end. Oh well!


87 posted on 05/13/2004 10:00:08 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: shotgunjohn

I thought I was reading the clear, plain truth of scripture. My point was that your explanation required more twists and turns to provide an answer for your preconcieved notions that it hardly seemed worth the effort. It isn't terribly complicated; Paul says that when Jesus returns, "the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call andd with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; and then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the Clouds to meet the Lord in the air...."

A legal scholar would view the coming of the Lord, with the angels and the trumpets, as a condition precendent to the raising of those "asleep in Christ" and those still alive, who are merely those that haven't fallen asleep in Christ. A condition precedent must occur first. He will return, then we will be taken into His kingdom.

The concern that I have is that you and a lot of dear friends of mine are convinced that you are gonna be whisked away by the Lord at the appointed time. Its a nice idea, and you know what? I fully beleive that God will do just that, if thats what He wants to do, just because my faith insists that HE CAN. But, reading the plain language of scripture, I don't see it. So, when your'e expecting your Rapture, I will be girding myself for the tribulaiton. Since you sincerely believe you are out of here, you wont realize that the anti-christ is duping you, possibly not until it is too late, bacause you'll still be waiting....of course if you are right, I'll see you in Heaven! (I intend to go, either way. I'm just clearer headed about it and prepared for all the Enemy will throw at me.)

It is endlessly fascinating to me that such a enormous industry has developed around supporting an idea, which in the old days, would likely have been condemned as heresy, and its adherents hunted down and burned at the stake! Yet in today's world, ideas that diverge from Truth are taken up an run with like a defensive lineman on a fumble - the wrong way for the offense. It is truly remarkable how far some will go to defend their ideas. The more vigorous the defense, the more likely that the idea defended is questionable. The more strident and strong the refusal to see the other side of the issue, the more likely that the ideologue is on shaky ground. That is true for the defenders of the Roe v. Wade SCOTUS ruling: that thing is primed to fall, and soon, for its legal basis is extraordinaly weak. Likewise for the defenders of the "Rapture". The arguments for are weak, and only there with a good old-fashioned scripture-twistin'.

Still, keep up your faith. God will reveal all things to those who need to know.


91 posted on 05/16/2004 7:23:39 PM PDT by shotgunjohn
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